* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
LINGUIST List logo Eastern Michigan University Wayne State University *
* People & Organizations * Jobs * Calls & Conferences * Publications * Language Resources * Text & Computer Tools * Teaching & Learning * Mailing Lists * Search *
* *
 

Ask-A-Linguist - Message details
Subject: Learning foreign languages from another language family
Question:
I am a teacher and have had basic classes in teaching ESL students. I took these classes a few years ago.

I recall from a lecture in class - or perhaps from a reading in a text or our required reading materials - that different language families can require varying amounts of time for learning. In other words, from a general and overall population standpoint, the time it for native English speakers to learn another northern European or Celtic language takes the least time for us (native English speakers); Romance languages the next level of time; the mid-eastern languages a third level of time; and the Asian languages the longest amount of time. And, then, it's the reverse for the Asians to learn mid-eastern; Romance; northern European inc. English, etc.

Is my memory of this theory close to reality or current research theory or have I recalled incorrectly?

I know that individual differences can also be very important in learning another language - and many exceptions to the general population time rule can apply and do everyday.

If you could also refer me to the archives for articles related to the time it takes to learn languages from different language families, please provide me with the proper search terminology. Thank you!

Reply:
As luck would have it, a story on foreign language learning and the relative time it takes (American) English speakers to learn various languages appeared in the Cincinnati Enquirer on 27 September instant. It included the following sidebar, which I paste in:

Hours required
Number of hours of instruction to reach advanced level of speaking:

Group I: French, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish - 720 hours

Group II: Farsi, German, Greek, Hindi - 1,320 hours

Group III: Polish, Russian, Turkish, Vietnamese - 1,320 hours*

Group IV: Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Korean - 2,400-2,760 hours

Four years of a high school language course (which few students complete) equals 480 hours of instruction.

Source: Alice Omaggion Hadley, retired professor of French, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champlain

I have not read the actual study, and do not know where Professor Hadley got it. I'm sceptical of some of the groupings. She has for instance Russian and Turkish in the same group -- nope. I've studied them both at some length and guarrantee, again all other things equal, Turkish takes longer. Quite a bit longer. By the way -- Turkish and Arabic won't help you with each other except for some vocabulary. Turkish has borrowed quite a number of words from Arabic and some from Persian (Farsi). But the languages don't work at all alike. Incidentally, I began to learn some Japanese as a child, was away from it for decades, and then began it again with some intensity and time later in life. Turkish is the language I know that interferes with my Japanese -- because they do work very much alike but differ in some notable details. And of course, that's where the devil often dwells.

As are my colleagues for reasons they've indicated, sceptical I also am of your original groupings in your initial query. You lump for instance "...another northern European or Celtic language..."

I assume the "another" means in addition to English. But if English is "northern European", so are Celtic languages. So I'm a little geolinguistically mystified here. But I can guarrantee you it takes longer to learn a Celtic language for an English speaker, all other things equal (which, as my colleagues have pointed out, they have a habit of not being) than to learn, say Dutch, or Spanish. For Celtic, you are facing among other formidable phenomena

1. a largely unrecognizeable vocabulary which knowledge of no other non Celtic language will help you much with, and which even knowledge of another Celtic language won't help you a lot with though Breton is certainly easier if you know Welsh. But my introduction to Breton was taught in Welsh so there is an example of other things that aren't equal.

2. a series of initial consonant alternations which one must master very early on to even be able to look a word in a dictionary up, Or to tell the difference among 'his dog, her dog, my dog, ;their dog.
/i gi, i xi, nghi, i ci/

3. a number of syntactic constructions rather foreign to English or most other European languages, occasioned primarily by and steming from the Verb, Subject, Object structure of Celtic

But my colleagues have pointed out that while "Distance Theory" is nice in the abstract (whether true or not is another matter), things are seldom equal. English and German work much more alike generally than do English and any of the Romance languages, but there are a couple of formidable hurdles for the English speaker. One is a case system in the articles that you have to learn fairly early; the other, much more formidable one, is a vocabulary that has not borrowed nearly as much from Latin, Greek, and French as has English. So you can learn to read technical material in French fairly quickly, but reading at the same level in German is another matter entirely. Paradoxically, German will use even in technical writing constructions much more likely in English informal writing for children to find, but not in technical writing or novels for adults. But German phonology is usually much easier for English speakers than French, and French has a large number of homophonous forms due to consonant truncations and the like, so you have to know French pretty well to understand it. With French, figuring out what words they've said is what hard is, while with German, figuring out the words is a little easier but knowing what they mean is harder. But French syntax, once you've got Noun, Adjective order and preposed dependent pronouns in order is fairly straightforward in written French. Modern Spoken French is another matter but still pretty straightforward. But once you get beyond the first year and a half, Spanish written for other adult Spanish speakers can get a little tricky too. And some people say knowing Italian makes Rumanian almost a breeze but others not. Rumanian is sort of like older Italian spoken in Russian so I am inclined to believe the "nots" -- but since I am better acquainted with Rumanian than Italian and neither is native to me, my direct experience isn't maybe a good guage.

Well, take the reference I managed to find for you and follow it up and see if it leads to something fruitful.

Hwyl,

U of Cincinnati
Dept of Anthropology

Reply From: Joseph F Foster    click here to access email
Date: Oct-04-2009
Other Replies:
  1. Re: Learning foreign languages from another language family Nancy J. Frishberg    (Oct-04-2009)
  2. Re: Learning foreign languages from another language family James L Fidelholtz    (Oct-04-2009)
  3. Re: Learning foreign languages from another language family Robert A Papen    (Oct-04-2009)
  4. Re: Learning foreign languages from another language family Anthea Fraser Gupta    (Oct-04-2009)
  5. Re: Learning foreign languages from another language family Elizabeth J Pyatt    (Oct-04-2009)
  6. Re: Learning foreign languages from another language family John M. Lawler    (Oct-05-2009)
Back to Most Recent Questions
Page Updated: 26-Nov-2009

Please report any bad links or misclassified data

LINGUIST Homepage | Read LINGUIST | Contact us

NSF Logo

While the LINGUIST List makes every effort to ensure the linguistic relevance of sites listed
on its pages, it cannot vouch for their contents.