LINGUIST List 11.1970

Tue Sep 19 2000

Sum: The Sign/Addendum

Editor for this issue: Karen Milligan <karenlinguistlist.org>


Directory

  1. karchung, The sign (3)

Message 1: The sign (3)

Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 07:47:05 +0800
From: karchung <karchungccms.ntu.edu.tw>
Subject: The sign (3)


	Here is the third posting of data collected on names for the 
sign in different languages. I sincerely thank all the people who
responded, some of whom I remember from the previous survey. I
*really* appreciate your input and contribution!
	I was just a bit disappointed in the response - I may have had
overly high expectations after the overwhelming response to the
first survey. So where the data wasn't served up to me on a
silver e-platter, I went to the data. I used google.com to find
community message boards, tourist agencies, and Internet service
sites - even subscribed to language-specific computer discussion
lists - one country/language at a time. I was amply rewarded: I
consider the data I dug up in this way for languages like
Georgian, Tajiki and Mongolian to be real treasures.
	I found the enthusiastic response of the Occitan group very
interesting. It seemed to show evidence of (very admirable)
active efforts at reviving and updating a minority language. I
was also pleased to get data on international sign languages.
	The preponderance of 'monkey' related words is notable.
Especially interesting is Croatian, which uses the *English* word
'monkey' (and not the Serbian term), though 'monkey' is not to my
knowledge used in this way in English at all! (My apologies to
Mirjana Dedaic for not including your data in the earlier
survey.)
	I have included responses reporting no known word for  in a
specific language. This data is as valuable as receiving a name
for , if just a bit less fun. The same applies when use of the
English 'at' (or in the case of Dharmsala Tibetan, 'at the rate
of'!) is reported. These reports give us lots of information
about how far the Internet/e-mail technology has spread (i.e. to
just a few rich techies or organizations vs. just about
everybody, or something in between), the language used to
facilitate this spread, and perhaps general patterns of loan word
importation, e.g. phonetic loan vs. calque/loan translation vs.
original coinage. 
	 There are still big gaps - e.g. one correspondent provided the
English translation of a Vietnamese term for , but not the
original Vietnamese. And there is a string of words in Indian
languages which I haven't been able to verify. Well, if you know
a word for  that hasn't been reported yet, in any language at
all, do send it over!

					Karen Steffen Chung
					National Taiwan University
					karchungccms.ntu.edu.tw


	Heartfelt thanks to:

Aanta <aantaboreale.se>
Dr. Agrawal <jhagarwalbom6.vsnl.net.in>
Arthur <plasticfreenet.am>
Ben Bagheri <benpersianoutpost.com>
Etrit Bardhi <etritalb-net.com>
Joan-Frances Blanc <joan-frances.blancexcite.com>
Vesselin Bontchev <bontchevcomplex.is>
Hyeon-Woo Cho <langhchoijnc.inje.ac.kr>
Laura Daniliuc <laura.daniliucanu.edu.au>
Annie D�saulniers <adesaulnhotmail.com>
Mirjana N. Dedaic <nelson-dedaict-online.de> (Nelson-Dedaic)
Ivan A Derzhanski <iadmath.bas.bg>
Andrej Dvorsak <andrej.Dvorsakguest.arnes.si>
Gregor Erbach <erbachftw.at>
Alexander Fatsis <laotse1976hotmail.com>
Nancy Frishberg <nancyffishbird.com>
"Robert W. M. Greaves" <rwmghplaw.co.id>
Beso Gugushvili <bpgclinet.fi>
Roelly Guillaume <roellymagma.cgg.com>
Dan Haig <gizardxanatoo.cyborganic.com>
Uri Horesh <urihbabel.ling.upenn.edu>
Andrew Erik Langkj=E6r?= <aelaint.tele.dk>
Peter Malling <mallingasia.dk>
Mark Mandel <Mark_Mandeldragonsys.com>
Philippe Mennecier <phmcimrs1.mnhn.fr>
Michalis Milapides <mmenl.auth.gr>
Christopher Miller <miller.christopheruqam.ca,
list-occco.asso.fr>
Mongolian National Tourism Centre <ntcmongol.net>
Victoria Nyst <victorianysthotmail.com>
Sinan Oymaci <sinanoymtriosh.com>
Dan Parvaz <dparvazunm.edu>
Micheu Prat <Micheu.Pratwanadoo.fr>
Sankaralingam <umayalpacific.net.sg>
Dominic Sansom <sansomdesignis.com.fj>
Raija Solatie <raija.solatiekolumbus.fi>
Domergue Sumien <d_sumienclub-internet.fr>
Tojik (Tajikistan Online Forum: email-noticeboardhost.com)
Vasia Staff <staffvasia.com>
R�my Viredaz <remy.viredazspan.ch>
viplob <viplobphimalmedia.com>
Vivien at Tyco International, Hong Kong
Colin Whiteley <cwhiteleytycoint.com>
Andy Wilcox <andywilcox.the.forthnet.gr>

	Now, the data. I am including only *new* responses; please go to
the earlier two  summaries for the complete story, as far as
I've been able to get it.

*****************************************
ALBANIAN
Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:55:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Etrit Bardhi <etritalb-net.com>

As far as I know, it is called "Shenja e Majmunit" (The Monkey
Sign).

Etrit

*****************************************
ARABIC

Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:17:37 +0300
From: Ivan A Derzhanski <iadmath.bas.bg>
To: karchungccms.ntu.edu.tw

So why should anyone be surprised not to find <> on the
keyboards
of Arabic typewriters? It is so obviously a feature of the Roman
alphabet, and that only as used for English, as one of your
Hungarian
correspondents points out.

*****************************************
ARMENIAN
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:59:30 +0500
From: "Arthur" <plasticfreenet.am>

I really don't know the word for  sign in Armenian. Internet is
quite new
to us (only something about 5 years for most of the users, not
professionals).
We have a discussion group where the problems of Internet
terminolgy are
discussed. You can find it at news.freenet.am.
I know a Russian word for it: "sobachka", as you use Russian much
in
Armenia.

Arthur,
http://www.plasticsurgery.am
Land and Culture Organization,
http://www.lcousa.org
*******************************************
BULGARIAN

1. Thu, 06 Mar 1997 10:32:39 +0000
From: Vesselin Bontchev <bontchevcomplex.is>
I see that you are missing the Bulgarian name. :-) In Bulgarian
we call
it "maimunsko a" - monkey's a.

Regards,
Vesselin
- 
Vesselin Vladimirov Bontchev, 
e-mail: bontchevcomplex.is

2. Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:17:37 +0300
From: Ivan A Derzhanski <iadmath.bas.bg>
To: karchungccms.ntu.edu.tw

In Bulgarian the names used are, in descending order of
frequency, _majmunsko <a>_ `monkey <a>', _majmunka_ `little
monkey'
and _majmuna_ `monkey, ape'; and one of my acquaintances tells a
story
about a female colleague of his who became the hit of the party
by stating her email address as _Petrova, majmuna_ (which means
literally `Petrova, an ape', though intended to mean `my user
name
is simply my surname, then you write an <> and the domain, which
is the same as yours'). (Surname changed to protect the
innocent.)

Ivan A Derzhanski 
<http://www.math.bas.bg/~iad/>;
H: cplx Iztok bl 91, 1113 Sofia, Bulgaria 
<iadmath.bas.bg>
W: Dept for Math Lx, Inst for Maths & CompSci, Bulg Acad of
Sciences

*****************************************
CANTONESE

I actually haven't heard of anyone to describe the  in Cantonese
or
Mandarin, we, including our colleagues in Mainland China always
call this
sign in English i.e. 'at'.
Sorry I cannot help in this issue.

Vivien

*****************************************
CROATIAN

1. Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:46:18 +0200
From: nelson-dedaict-online.de (Nelson-Dedaic)
To: karchungccms.ntu.edu.tw

I believe I have responded to your query long ago, but I will
still
repeat my answer, since I do not see Croatian among the languages
for
which you have data.

So, in Croatian, the sign  is called MONKEY. The English word is
used,
and not Croatian. The Croats are usually surprised when I tell
them that
Americans do not call  the same way they do.

Mirjana N. Dedaic
Georgetown

2. From: Mima <mimaerols.com>

Croats call this symbol:  (which appears in e-mail addresses)
MONKEY.
When I first heard it, I thought it was originally MAJMUN in
Croatian, and
they just translated it for me (since I live in the U.S.). So,
the next
time I used it as MAJMUN and they laughed at me!

(copied from an old LINGUIST post on 'pseudo-loanwords')
*****************************************
FAROESE
Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:22:23 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andrew_Erik_Langkj=E6r?= <aelaint.tele.dk>

The Faroe-islands use the Danish "snabel-a", which you already
know
means "elephants trunk-a". The Faroe Islands has been under
Danish rule
for several centuries now, so the influence is obvious - still
they have
their own language, which I don't know the english name for.

**************************************************
FIJIAN

1. Fri, 25 Aug 2000 11:33:12 -1000
From: Dominic Sansom <sansomdesignis.com.fj>

Bula (greetings) Karen
You have a very interesting project. I do not thing the Fijian
language has got round to giving punctuation marks or
typographical symbols name. I am acquainted with the person who
is in charge of the Fijian Dictionary Project and I will ask him
and get back to you.
Dominic Sansom
Email domsansomdesign.com (work)
 domkaiviti.com (personal)
Fiji News, Forums and Chat http://www.KaiViti.com is worth a look

2. Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:51:32 -1000
From: Dominic Sansom <sansomdesignis.com.fj

I have had a talked to Paul Gerraty (Head of the Fijian
Dictionary project) and he said there is no name for the at
sign,,, sorry. 
Is there an English word for it... apart from the "at" sign?
Maybe there should be and international competition (sponsored by
one of the large email companies, seeing as the re-birth of the
"at" sign is because of the explosion of email) to find a proper
name for it. Now that would be a great project.
Let me know what you think
Regards
Dom
ps. Paul Gerraty has said he will look at coining a Fijian word
for the "at"
sign. I'll let you know if he does.

********************************************

FINNISH

Sun, 13 Aug 2000 12:22:45 +0300
From: "Raija Solatie" <raija.solatiekolumbus.fi>

In Finnish we can call the sign  "miuku mauku". The term is
related to the way of cats' meowing. In Finnish the cats say
"MIAU".

Raija Solatie
Mme Raija Solatie linguiste/Linguist Kaskihara 20 02340 Espoo
Finlande/Finnland
t�l./Tel.: +358-9-8136989 e-mail : raija.solatiekolumbus.fi
http://www.kolumbus.fi/raija.solatie

*****************************************
FRENCH

1. Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:17:54 EDT
From: "Annie D�saulniers" <adesaulnhotmail.com>
To: karchungccms.ntu.edu.tw

(Canada)
I am French Canadian. I always heard people call this sign: "a" 
commercial.

Annie D�saulniers

2. Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:10:12 +0200
From: R�my Viredaz <remy.viredazspan.ch>
In French (my language), by contrast, usage is extremely
uncertain.
Most people I know (but they are not computer specialists) have
used
phrases meaning something like "... the sign..., you know" ,
where 
"..." indicates a silence, optionally with a sign of the finger
in the
air.
I think "at" is rather common, as are Anglicisms in general in
the
language of computers and Internet. 
"Arobas" (various spellings) I have mostly found in normative
sources,
though I did hear it once on TV.

Remy Viredaz

3. Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:44:31 +0200
From: "ROELLY Guillaume" <roellymagma.cgg.com>

>I'm french and yesterday I spoke half an hour with a Norwegian to make him
>know my e-mail adress. The problem was this particular sign.
>
>He knew only the Norwegian term for it which meant nothing to me !
>He tried to make me see by saying he pressed the keys "AltGr" and "2". But
>as we do not share the same type of keyboards it's ~(tilde) for me !
>
>Moreover I was told when I started computing in 1982 that in french the
name
>for it was "aronde" wich shall be a play on words for "ronde" means round
so
>"aronde" sounds like "a ronde" (round a)
>"aronde" is also a real french word used only in the "queue d'aronde"
>expression meaning a dovetail in joinery businness.

4. Mon, 8 Jun 1998 13:28:16 +0200
From: "ROELLY Guillaume" <roellymagma.cgg.com>

Another interresting one I translated for you

** The most common term in french seem to be "arobase". I find
"aronde"
quite nice. It means swallow in old french therefor the "queue
d'aronde"
expression in architecture and joinery business.
**I would prefer "nombril" (navel) whitch shall refer to it's
form, it's
central position and the ego. Each and everyone proudly displays
this sign
in the middle of his address...

- ---Message d'origine-----
De : Philippe Mennecier <phmcimrs1.mnhn.fr>
* : roellymagma.cgg.com <roellymagma.cgg.com>
Date : lundi 8 juin 1998 11:32
Objet : 

 Le terme le plus courant en fran�ais semble �tre
"arobase". Je
trouve que "aronde" n'est pas mal. Cela dit, il signifie tout
simplement
hirondelle en vieux fran�ais, d'o* l'expression queue d'aronde en
architecture et en menuiserie.
 Personnellement, je pr�f�rerais le terme de "nombril",
qui r�f�re *sa forme, * sa position centrale et * ego. Chacun
arbore fi�rement ce signe
au mileu de son adresse...

*****************************************
GEORGIAN
Mon, 21 Aug 2000 01:21:29 -0700
From: "Beso Gugushvili" <bpgclinet.fi>

"kudiani a" = letter 'a' with a tail

beso

*****************************************
GERMAN
1. Mon, 6 Jan 1997 18:08:33 +0100 (MEZ)
From: Jochen Ziegenbalg <jochen.ziegenbalgoe.uni-tuebingen.de>

(Germany)
Just in case the following description is not yet in the list:
In Germany, the -symbol is occasionally called
"Schweinekringel", which
is probably best translated as "pig-tail" or, maybe, even better
as 
"piggy-tail".

Jochen Zieenbalg

2. Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:10:12 +0200
From: R�my Viredaz <remy.viredazspan.ch>

(Switzerland)
In German I have always heard Affenschwanz, though from one
groupe of
people working in the same offices, in Switzerland. Your material
would
be consistent with the guess that Klammeraffe is used in Germany
while
Affenschwanz is used in Switzerland. However, things may be more
complicated. 

Remy Viredaz

3. Thu, 24 Aug 2000 19:40:50 +0200
From: Gregor Erbach <erbachftw.at>

(Austria)
I have heard the word "Alphakringel" (alpha-ring) used for the 
"" sign in German, but I don't think it's used very frequently.
 
Gregor Erbach

*****************************************
GREEK

1. Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:25:02 +0200
From: "Dr. Michalis Milapides" <mmenl.auth.gr>
Organization: A.U.Th. - School of English

I don't know whether I can send some additional information about
the term we use in Greece for .
Lots of people now instead of the English translation use the
term "papaki" which means "duckling".

2. Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:04:35 +0100
From: "Wilcox" <andywilcox.the.forthnet.gr>

Your Greek informants, perhaps because they are adults, missed
the young Greek's word for "", which is "pap'aki" = little duck:
p'apia (=duck) + diminutive affix. This is used to refer to the
symbol itself: in reading aloud/dictating an e-mail address,
"sto(n)" etc. can used in just the way that one of your
informants described, though "pap'aki" will also be heard.
andywilcox.the.forthnet.gr
andy sto wilcox tel'ia the tel'ia forthnet tel'ia gr
or
andy pap'aki wilcox tel'ia the tel'ia forthnet tel'ia gr
("dot" is also coming into increasing use in place of "tel'ia")

The most plausible etymology for "at" in English is that, in the
days when invoices were prepared by hand, "" was used to show
the unit price: so
5 gadgets  *10 : *50
to be read as
five gadgets at ten pounds, fifty pounds
 
Andrew Wilcox

3. Tue, 15 Aug 2000 00:04:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: alexisbabel.ling.upenn.edu (Alexis Dimitriadis)

Sorry I waited till after your summary to write, but Greek is
usually well represented in the list---as it was in this case,
but you did not get the whole story: When read as part of an
email address the  sign in Greek would be translated as your
respondents said, but as a symbol on its own I've often heard it
referred to as "aftaki" `little ear' --- seems to be a popular
image crosslinguistically.
(Surely I'm not the only Greek speaker on the list who has
encountered this?)
Alexis

4. Sun, 20 Aug 2000 22:06:25 GMT
From: "Alexander Fatsis" <laotse1976hotmail.com>

Regarding its name by Greeks we all now 
call it "papaki" which means little duck. "Papia is the name of
the duck and 
"-aki" is used to show that something is small. Sometimes is also
called at. 
But this now is rare.

5. Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:58:28 EEST
From: "Costas Gabrielatos" <cgabrielatoshotmail.com>

I read your intersting summary on ''. I'd like to correct the
information 
on the Greek expression for it, though. I haven't heard anyone
call it by 
any possible translation of 'at'. Everybody calls it /pa'paki/,
which 
means'duckling'.

Costas Gabrielatos
(Greece)

******************************************
GREENLANDIC

Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:52:58 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andrew_Erik_Langkj=E6r?= <aelaint.tele.dk>

I have received an -version from Greenland. They use the Danish
snabel-a but sometimes translate it directly to Greenlandic:
a-nagguaatsulik (a with elephants trunk).

 Andrew Langkj�r
 Opasia Editorial Staff
 Tele Denmark Internet

******************************************
HEBREW
Sun, 13 Aug 2000 06:46:22 -0400
From: Uri Horesh <urihbabel.ling.upenn.edu>

In Hebrew, as I believe it was a few years ago, the most common
name is
"shtrudel". When I sometimes read out an e-mail address and call
it "at", I
often have to clarify and say "shtrudel", so that my interlocutor
will
understand what I'm talking about.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Uri Horesh Graduate Student
265 S 22nd St Apt 1M Department of Linguistics
Philadelphia PA 19103-5566 University of Pennsylvania
USA 
Phone: (215) 732-7133 			Cell : (215) 205-0668
E-mail: urihbabel.ling.upenn.edu
http://spinoza.tau.ac.il/hci/dep/semitic/horesh.html
ICQ: 50548643
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************
INDIAN LANGUAGES - VARIOUS

(Note: Can anybody verify any of this data? - KSC)

1. Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:28:21 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andrew_Erik_Langkj=E6r?= <aelaint.tele.dk>

Urdu : pay, per,may, key uper, key wahan, key yahan
Punjabi : tay, uttay, dey uttay, wich
Pushto : Sar(pronounced as sir), ber ser, pa
Persian : ber ser, sarray, az, ba
Sindhi : may
Hindko : ottaN, vichuN
Pahari : arr, vitcha
Kashmiri : peth, munz
Gujri : maN

2. "Dr. Agrawal" <jhagarwalbom6.vsnl.net.in>
August 22, 2000 4:42 AM

'  ' means "at the rate of " (English).
In Hindi, it is "dar se" or "ki dar se"; here 'ki' (Hindi) is
for 'at' (English).
In Tamil, it is "veedam".
Both, "dar se" and "veedam" mean ' at the rate of '
Example : I purchased mangoes "at the rate" of Rupees 10 per
kilo.

J.H. Agarwal
Dallas / USA, 22 Aug 2000.
J.H. Agarwal
21 Aug 2000.

*****************************************
INDONESIAN

Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:19:37 +0700
From: "Robert W. M. Greaves" <rwmghplaw.co.id>

I asked around in my office here in Indonesia and the consensus
among the Indonesian speakers was that in reading or saying
e-mail addresses in Indonesian they would read it as "at". The
most popular name for it was "a keong" (snail a) but "a kurung"
(caged or bracketed a) and "a kura-kura" (turtle a) were also
suggested.

******************************************
KOREAN

Tue, 15 Aug 2000 08:12:24 +0900
From: v��� <langhchoijnc.inje.ac.kr>
To: <karchungccms.ntu.edu.tw>

It's also called 'golbaengi-pyo', literally meaning 'golbaengi
mark.' The scientific name for 'golbaengi' is written as
'Semisulcospira libertina.' It's completely different from
snails. Spirals are the only common feature between gol-baeng-i
and dal-paeng-i (Lee's).
 
Hyeon-Woo Cho
langhchoijnc.inje.ac.kr

*****************************************
MANDARIN CHINESE

Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:22:23 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andrew_Erik_Langkj=E6r?= <aelaint.tele.dk>

>From the Danish Embassy in Beijing, China, Wang Mei wrote me the following: -symbol in Chinese is (Da Yi Ba a) as long tailed a.
andrew

*******************************************
MONGOLIAN
Tue, 22 Aug 2000 22:10:39 +0800
From: "MNTC" <ntcmongol.net>
Organization: Mongolian National Tourism Centre

 sign is named in Mongolia "buurunhii dotorh aa" - "A in round
circle".

*******************************************
NEPALI

Thu, 24 Aug 2000 13:00:18 +0530
From: viplobphimalmedia.com

i don't know how they write in other languages but here in nepal
we simply use  for 
viplob

*****************************************************
NORWEGIAN
Sun, 20 Aug 2000 17:09:45 +0200
From: "The Ant" <aantaboreale.se>

I can help you out on the Norwegian word for it in case you don't
already have it. It's "krull-a" which translate as "curled a" in
the same way as you say 'curled hair'

Aanta

*******************************************
OCCITAN

1. Mon, 14 Aug 2000 00:24:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joan-Frances Blanc <joan-frances.blancexcite.com>
To: karchungccms.ntu.edu.tw
CC: miller.christopheruqam.ca, list-occco.asso.fr

In Occitan the  sign is called alabast, which means a little
hook (ala - the first meaning is "wing") at the pack-saddle of a
donkey ("bast"). A local pronounciation arobast (from the
Aveyron-Tarn area) has also given the Frenchj word "arobas". See
for instance the Tresor dou Felibrige by Frederic Mistral.
J F Blanc

For Occitan speakers I'm writing the Occitan version:
Adiu Karen,
En Occitan lo signe "" se ditz alabast, co qu'e sun croc pichon
penjat al
bast dels ases. Una pronociacion locala (Avairon e Tarn) donet
tamben lo mot frances arobas. Veser per exemple lo Tresor dou
Felibrige.

On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 14:09:21 -0400, Christopher Miller wrote:
> Cossi se sona en oc... ?
> (Enviatz-li vostra responsa a :
> karchungccms.ntu.edu.tw
> e pas a ieu nimai a la list-oc...)
> Seria bon que sapia co qu'es l'occitan !
 
> Chris Miller

2. Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:17:40 +0200
From: "Micheu.Prat" <Micheu.Pratwanadoo.fr>

Micheu PRAT
9, l�ia de Chaban�tas
05 000 Gap / Occit�nia
Telef�n: 04/92/53/50/73
Telec�pia: 04/92/51/41/63
E.Mail: Micheu.Pratwanadoo.fr

Gap, divendres, lo 18 d'avost de 2000

Je crois que tu peux mettre ton petit grain de sel dans cette
recherche de
Karen Steffen Chung sur les app�lations diverses du symbole "".
Y aura-t-il un charentais pour oser d�clarer comme d�signation
officielle
de ce signe "" le mot "cagouille"?
Je compte sur toi car j'ai trouv* cette terminologie tr�s int�r
essante *de nombreux �gard:
 -le mot cagouille est un tr�sor du patrimoine linguistique
charentais.
 -la forme de l'alabast/arobas ressemble bien aux spires
escargotiques ou
escargotiennes.
 -Karen Steffen Chung recherche bien des d�signations
dialectales et il est
bon de montrer la dialectalit* de la langue d'oil.
 A Dieu siatz
 Coralament e amistosament. De c�r e d'�c. Micheu
 "Pretz, Paratge, Larguesa" Mem�ria trobadorenca, Occit�nia
encuei.

3. lo signe "": arr�ba
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 14:06:21 +0200
From: Domergue Sumien <d_sumienclub-internet.fr>

Prepausi en occitan "una arr�ba"

- Ven de l'espanh�l "una arroba" qu'a dos senses (lo signe , una
unitat
de pes tradicionala).

- Lo catalan a calcat l'espanh�l en disent "una arrova"
(recomandacion
del TermCat). En catalan "arrova" significa dempu�i longtemps
l'unitat
de pes e, per calc de l'espanh�l, significa tanben u�i lo signe
.

- Lo franc�s ditz "un arobas", "un arobase", qu'es una adaptacion
mal
compresa del plural espanh�l "la arroba, las arrobas".

Per un c�p qu'av�m una solucion latina per designar un simb�l
ligat a
l'auta tecnologia, ne cal profechar.

Mas "arr�ba" interditz pas d'emplegar de sinonims occitans
eventuals
coma "a comercial / a comerciala", "cagarauleta", etc.

Soi pas convencut per l'ipot�si "alabast/arobast/arobas".

Domergue Sumien

*****************************************
ROMANIAN

Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 15:41:13 +1000
From: Laura Daniliuc <laura.daniliucanu.edu.au>

In Romanian, there are the following names for :
1. Rom "a-rond" = cca English "a-round"
2. Rom "coada de maimuta" = English "monkey tail"
3. Rom "la" = English "at"

Laura & Radu Daniliuc
Australian National University
Faculty of Arts, Department of Linguistics
<laura.daniliucanu.edu.au>

*******************************************
SAMI (LAPP)
Sun, 20 Aug 2000 17:09:45 +0200
From: "The Ant" <aantaboreale.se>
Funny question. :)
Yet in my Sami language and the two i know of - we haven't got a
special word for the  as of yet ( yes i do think we will create
on in the near future. )

Aanta
*******************************************
SIGN LANGUAGE

1.  in French Sign Language
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:52:49 -0800
From: Nancy Frishberg <nancyffishbird.com>

I have been giving a talk for several years about "Air Graphics"
in 
which I describe how American Sign Language incorporates various 
punctuation marks, non-alphabetic graphics, charts, maps, and so 
forth into the language. I recently gave a new version of this
talk 
at the 7th international conference on Theoretical Issues in Sign 
Language Research, where researchers of more a dozen sign
languages 
were present.

At that time I invited others to start describing how the
languages 
they research use similar principles. A colleague who works on 
French Sign Language showed me the sign in French Sign Language
(LSF) 
for E-MAIL. It uses the A-handshape held over an open palm,
circling 
and then landing on the palm. That is, it's a representation of
 
blended with the sign for LETTER (where the dominant hand would
in 
that case use index+middle finger extended to tap, as a 
postage-stamp).

These descriptions without gestures are always overly complex. I 
should just put a QT movie up somewhere and let you point to it. 
Not 
this week, but perhaps soon.
- 
Nancy Frishberg +1 650.654.1948 nancyffishbird.com

2. " sign in sign languages
Tue, 15 Aug 2000 12:38:46 -0400
From: Mark_Mandeldragonsys.com

Yesterday I posted the following to SLLING-L, the sign language
linguistics
list. So far I have received two replies.

0. My query:
>>>>>
What do signers call the symbol "" that is used in email
addresses? Are
there different names for it in ASL? What about other signed
languages?

The LINGUIST list has just published a request from a linguist
who keeps a
list of the names for this symbol in forty spoken languages and
who is
trying to update it. I would like to be able to submit data on
sign
languages as well.
<<<<<

1. From Dan Parvaz <dparvazunm.edu>, 08/14/2000, 01:27:02 pm:
>>>>>
The ASL signs I've seen (barring the dreaded SEE sign AT) are
either a
fingerspelled A-T or an index finger tracing the shape of the 
as one
would write it. I'm a non-native signer, but for the final
flourish I tend
to twist my wrist in rather than out, which in a right-handed
signer has
the circle going in the opposite direction from the way "" is
represented
typographically (at least in the Monaco font I'm looking at now).

Stay tuned on LIU (Jordanian SL); there are fewer than 5 deaf
email users
in the country, but they probalby have some way of expressing it.
<<<<<

Dan tells me that he is a non-native signer of LIU and is asking
about
native Jordanian signers who use email. BTW, "ASL" = American
Sign
Language, and "LIU" presumably stands for the Arabic name of
Jordanian Sign
Language.

2. From Karen Chung (whose edress I do not know) via Nancy
Frishberg <
nancyffishbird.com>:
>>>>>
I sent this note directly to Karen Chung (and have received an
acknowledgement). I do count on you to repost relevant items
from
Linguist to SLLING. Meanwhile, I've continued my role as a
respondent on things signish at the Ask-A-Linguist panel. Divvy
up
the service, eh?

"I have been giving a talk for several years about "Air Graphics"
in
which I describe how American Sign Language incorporates various
punctuation marks, non-alphabetic graphics, charts, maps, and so
forth into the language. I recently gave a new version of this
talk
at the 7th international conference on Theoretical Issues in Sign
Language Research, where researchers of more a dozen sign
languages
were present.

"At that time I invited others to start describing how the
languages
they research use similar principles. A colleague who works on
French Sign Language showed me the sign in French Sign Language
(LSF)
for E-MAIL. It uses the A-handshape held over an open palm,
circling
and then landing on the palm. That is, it's a representation of

blended with the sign for LETTER (where the dominant hand would
in
that case use index+middle finger extended to tap, as a
postage-stamp).

"These descriptions without gestures are always overly complex. 
I
should just put a QT movie up somewhere and let you point to it. 
Not
this week, but perhaps soon."
<<<<<
(Nancy, please tell Karen for me that at least one sign linguist
appreciates such descriptions. Text is much more widely
accessible than
animations, and this is a phonological description, while the
best any
movie can do is phonetics.)

The A-handshape referred to would be that of French Sign
Language, which is
a closed fist with the thumb extended in the plane of the palm,
like the
USA "hitchhiking" or "thumbs up" handshape. "QT" would be
QuickTime.

- Mark

Mark A. Mandel : Dragon Systems, a Lernout & Hauspie company
Mark_Mandeldragonsys.com : Senior Linguist
 320 Nevada St., Newton, MA 02460, USA : http://www.dragonsys.com

3. Dan Parvaz <dparvazunm.edu>
To: Mark_Mandeldragonsys.com
CC: karchung <karchungccms.ntu.edu.tw>, Nancy Frishberg
<nancyffishbird.com>

> Dan tells me that he is a non-native signer of LIU and is asking about
> native Jordanian signers who use email. BTW, "ASL" = American Sign
> Language, and "LIU" presumably stands for the Arabic name of Jordanian Sign
> Language.

Yup. LIU = lughat ul-ishaarat il-urduniyya, "the language of the
sign the
Jordanian" :-) I'm still waiting for a response.

Dan.

DAN PARVAZ -- Geek-in-Residence
University of New Mexico Linguistics Dept 
dparvaz{unm.edu,lanl.gov} 505.480.9638

4. Mark_Mandeldragonsys.com
"victoria nyst" <victorianysthotmail.com>

In SL of the Netherlands (NGT)the sign for the  symbol is
related to the
Dutch word for the symbol, which is "monkey tail" (=apestaartje).
The NGT
sign for  (as I have seen it being used)is MONKEY: two cupped B
hands
scratch the upper torso. Do you want to have an exact
descsription, a
transcription or a picture?
Victoria Nyst, University of Amsterdam

***************************************
SPANISH and CATALAN

1. Spanish and Catalan usage has become much more fixed. At the
time of your first survey, "arroba" was a bit purist and most
people just said "a" or "el signo a", but these days "arroba" is
universal. 

Colin Whiteley, cwhiteleytycoint.com

2. Mon, 4 Sep 2000 08:49:54 +0700
From: "Peter Malling" <mallingasia.dk>

One more about . One person wrote the following to me:
The sign  is an old Spanish sign for one "Arroba", a measurement
for 25 libras or pound. (11,502 kg in Kastillia, 10.4 kg in
Katalunia, 12.5 kg in Aragonia).
Hence, in Spanish it's called "Arroba".
 
Peter.

***************************************
SLOVENE

Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:09:32 +0100
From: Andrej Dvorsak <andrej.Dvorsakguest.arnes.si>
To: karchungccms.ntu.edu.tw
Subject: 

 sign is called in slovene language "afna" means an ape or
monkey.

Andrej Dvorsak
*****************************************
TAGALOG
Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:53:10 +0800
From: staffvasia.com

In Tagalog it is also called "at" sign.

Vasia Staff

******************************************
TAJIKI, FARSI, DARI

1. In Tajiki (Persian, Dari, Farsi) the sign  (at) is call bah
which means at. 
Tojik 

2. Sat, 26 Aug 2000 22:54:28 -0500
From: Ben Bagheri <benpersianoutpost.com>

Thanks for visiting http://www.PersianOutpost.com.
I don't think your question applies to "Persian" language since
the
language uses a derivative of Arabic alphabet. The  sign is used
in
Western languages that use their common alphabet (I think
linguists call
them roman languages).

I have not lived inside of Iran for 18 years but I heard that the
recent
popularity and advancements of the Internet in the country has
forced
people to use and refer to the commercial at sign (). Apparently
most
people who have to somehow use the  sign, call it "at" (as do
English
speakers) and some people use the Persian word "dar" which
translates
literally to the English word "at". 

******************************************
TAMIL

1. Mon, 31 Aug 1998 08:55:36 +0800
From: User <umayalpacific.net.sg>

 in tamil means il (romanised tamil)
for example umayalpacific.net.sg - my address - will be
written as
pacific.net.sg il umayal 
i.e. tamil il should come after the server's name pacific.net
and
before the person's name.
hope i have made it clear.
sankaralingam

2. In Tamil, it is "veedam".
Both, "dar se" and "veedam" mean ' at the rate of '
Example : I purchased mangoes "at the rate" of Rupees 10 per
kilo.

J.H. Agarwal
Dallas / USA, 22 Aug 2000.
J.H. Agarwal
21 Aug 2000.

***************************************
TIBETAN

Mon, 21 Aug 2000 01:02:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dan Haig <gizardxanatoo.cyborganic.com>

> karchung: ...Is there a special name for  in Tibetan?...

Uh, no. Actually the Tibetans here in Dharamsala have been known
to read
email address by saying "karchung at the rate of ccms..." since
they only
know the  sign as something used in accounting or such.

Tibetans tend to just use the English version of tech words.

.d
***************************************
TURKISH
Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:22:02 +0300
From: "Sinan Oymaci" <sinanoymtriosh.com>

There is no special meaning for  sign in Turkish. We call it
"et". We use
the meaning from English.

Sinan Oymaci
e-mail: sinanoymtriosh.com

***************************************
VIETNAMESE
Mon, 28 Aug 2000 09:55:49 +0700
From: "Peter Malling" <mallingasia.dk>

In Vietnam it's called a circle-A.

***************************************

 WEB PAGES and ARTICLES ONLINE (certain to be incomplete)

http://art-bin.com/art/asignoftimes.html

http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~kit/lowly.html

http://www.universalshape.com/

http://home.bluemarble.net/~langmin/name.htm

http://news.freenet.am/cgi-bin/dnewsweb?cmd=article&group=am.comp.terms&item=376&utag=

http://www.hotwired.com/hardwired/wiredstyle/pickingbrains/index.html

http://www.herodios.com/herron_tc/atsign.html

http://users.cybercity.dk/~ccc25414/Snabel.htm

http://www.quinion.com/words/articles/whereat.htm

http://www.netsurf.ch/arobas.html

http://home.t-online.de/home/hanno_kuehnert/atengli.htm
In German:
http://home.t-online.de/home/076642735-0001/klaffe.htm
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