LINGUIST List 2.508

Fri 13 Sep 1991

Disc: That's

Editor for this issue: <>

Directory

1. , RE: 2.85 Queries
2. "R.Hudson", the book that's cover ...
3. "Larry G. Hutchinson", Re: 2.85 Queries
4. "(arry G. Hutchinson", Re: 2.85 Queries
5. , the book that's.....

Message 1: RE: 2.85 Queries

Regarding the whose/that's question, while I don't want to defend it, "the
book that's cover is red.." seems hardly different from "the book that's
red..." Perhaps that's the answer!

`The book that's cover is red ...' is quite a common construction in
UK. My daughter (London born and bred) at age about 9 said `the pencil
that's lead is broken', and I've seen mentions of it as a particularly
common pattern in Scottish English. I use it as evidence that, contrary
to received wisdom, THAT isn't a complementiser but a relative pronoun,
in a recent book. I think Johan Van der Auwera makes a similar point in
an article in Jnl of Linguistics 21, 149-79, 1985.
Interesting to hear it happens in USA too.
Dick vHudson
Dept of Phonetics and Linguistics,
University College London,
Gower Street,
London WC1E 6BT
(071) 387 7050 ext 3152
home: (081) 340 1253

Message 3: Re: 2.85 Queries

Prescriptivists (of the 18th century for instance) argued against constructions
of the form "the book whose cover...", just because "whose" is for humans.
Proper English requires "the book the cover of which...", they maintained.

Message 4: Re: 2.85 Queries

In reply to George Aaron Broadwell's query about forms like
_the book that's cover ..._
he should get in touch with Professor Aimo Seppa"nen of the English Dept.,
Univ of Go"teborg (Gothenburg), Sweden. He gave an interesting paper on the
phenomenon in Manchester in March 1990, using it to make the unfashionable
case that relative _that_ is a pronoun, not a complementiser. As I recall,
he had a lot of Scots examples, plus references to work on comparable
phenomena in dialects of Dutch, Low German, etc, eg by Liliane Haegeman
(I think).
 David Denison

Ask your student if (s)he comes from the ''MidSouth'' (the region of North Amer
ica which lies within television and FM radio broadcast range of Memphis, Tenne
ssee). Using "that's" for "whose" when referring to inanimate objects is prett
y derned prevalent in that region, at least from this Yankee-educated expatriat
e native's point of view. (Have to dig out my old high school papers to be sur
e if my English instructress railed on me any for using "that's"...but I'll alm
ost swear she didn't, since she was also a native MidSoutherner. ;))
Also, on a semi-related subject (well, related only because I brought it up),
has anyone run across any reports from research on media-induced dialect shift?
I.E., moving away from a regional dialect to a more 'standard' one thanks in
part to national television and radio broadcasts?....or subtle differences in d
ialect between people of relatively close regions thanks in part to the differe
nces in local television/radio stations they recieve? I am mostly interested
in reports related to United States/Canadian English, but I'll turn a few
cartwheels if someone knows (and is willing to tell :)) of research done in va
rious other Indo-European languages. I'm still trying to learn how to ask wher
e the bathroom is in Japanese, so, sorry, anything on Asian languages won't be
of much good. :(
Shai L. Strouse, Professional Dabbler
Department of Biochemistry Division of Cardiology
College of Agriculture, Food & Natural Res. School of Medicine
 University of Missouri-Columbia
 Columbia, Missouri, U.S.A.
 c485510umcvmb.bitnet
*** Of course, the University of Missouri has no control over what I do
*** in my spare time, so they shouldn't be held responsible for what
*** I say in my spare time. :)