LINGUIST List 2.579

Fri 27 Sep 1991

Disc: Washing and Dialect

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Directory

1. "Bruce E. Nevin", PA/IL dialects
2. Monica Macaulay, Jerry Morgan's query
3. Richard Ogden, RE: 2.566 Washing
4. Scott Delancey, Re: 2.566 Washing
5. , re: the distribution of "needs washed" etc.
6. Michael Earl Darnell, Re: 2.570 Queries

Jerry Morgan <morganlees.cogsci.uiuc.edu> asks about dialect features
common to central Illinois and central Pennsylvania.
Seems likely at least some of these features were carried in the
migration from mid-Atlantic states to the midwest. (I remember that
Bloomfield talks about this in his discussion of hypercorrection,
example sofy corrected in school to sofa hence hypercorrected
Cincinnata, so the migration was pre-1930s.) Intrusive r (worshed),
syllabic r for [Ir] (srrup, crreal), and prepalatalization (mayzhure,
playzhure) are traits you will find in Kentucky, Tennessee, etc.
Some of these traits are very widespread, I think. My mother has
intrusive r (though she doesn't say "it needs worshed"), native Martha's
Vineyard (Chilmark) dialect. At one time maybe 20 years ago I thought
this peculiar anymore emanated from New Jersey since everyone I met from
there used it, but I've heard it lots of places and anymore I can't
identify it with a region. Objectless with (are you coming with?) I
first encountered in far northeastern California (Shasta, Lassen, Modoc
Counties).
As to dialect studies, there is Raven McDavid's work on the Mid-Atlantic
region, insofar as that proves relevant for you.
	Bruce Nevin
	bnbbn.com

I didn't want to hop on the bandwagon of "they say it here too"
("it" = "needs washed"), but Jerry Morgan's query has forced me
to... Every one of the features he listed is characteristic of
my impressions of the dialect spoken here ("here" = Lafayette,
Indiana), with the possible exception of the "cereal"/"syrup"
one - I'll have to listen for those. So it's not just Illinois
& Pennsylvania.
With respect to the vowel raising, I can't tell you how alarmed
and confused I was when a nurse told me they were going to do a
"spatial" test on me (I thought, "depth perception?")... but of
course she was saying "special".........
Monica ("not from Indiana") Macaulay

Message 3: RE: 2.566 Washing

'wants washing' strikes me as more natural than 'needs washing'; I'm from
Northern England (Manchester).
'do you need it washing' seems perfectly OK, not 'substandard' as Norval
Smith put it, and I couldn
't say 'do you need it washed', which is impossible in my dialect.
Richard Ogden

Message 4: Re: 2.566 Washing

Just as an additional datum, "need V-ed" is completely normal in rural
and blue-collar speech in western Oregon, though you don't hear it much
around campus ...
Scott DeLancey

I once heard someone who grew up in Manitoba near Winnipeg and now lives in
Victoria BC say "the furnace needs fixed".

Message 6: Re: 2.570 Queries

While my dialect certainly doesn't come from central Illinois, rather the
south side of Chicago, objectless 'with' as in 'I'll bring him with' etc.
is fine for me. 'syrup' and 'cereal' are distinct for me. The first
syllable in 'syrup' matches 'circus'; 'cereal' doesn't.
As to the great debate about 'needs washed', both my dialect and my wife's,
northern Wisconsin, would star 'It needs washed' but 'It needs washing' is
fine.
Mike Darnell