alf.let.uva.nlEditor for this issue: <>
alf.let.uva.nl>Most of the observations and questions asked in connection with the French element "ne" (it is not negative; it might be modal; etc.) are discussed in a very interesting paper written in 1929. Full referencce: Damourette & Pichon (1929). 'Sur la signification psychologique de la ne'gation en franc,ais.' In: Journal de Psychologie 3, 228-254. Peter Kahrel University of Amsterdam The Netherlands kahrelMail to author|Respond to list|Read more issues|LINGUIST home page|Top of issue
central.cis.upenn.edu>just in case people think that pleonastic negation is limited to french and possibly english, i'd like to point out that it certainly occurs in yiddish, and definitely not only in 'careful' speech. it always occurs in a construction which would be translated in english by a 'wh-ever' phrase, e.g. es iz mir gut vu ikh zol nit zayn it is me good where i shall not be 'i'm fine wherever i am' vi groys a mentsh zol nit zayn... how big a person shall not be... 'however great a person may be...' vi er zol nit gehat laydn fun ir... how he shall not had sufferings from her... 'however much he suffered because of her...' also, pleonastic negation often occurs in the complement of 'fear', as in french: "hot dokh der vaybls mame moyre gehat, az imitser fun di shkhoynim zol NIT gebn dem kind KEYN aynore." (RP:5) has PRT the woman's mama fear had, that someone of the neighbors shall NOT give the child NO evil-eye 'so the woman's mother was afraid that one of the neighbors might give the child an evil eye' note that there is a difference between yiddish and french here, however. yiddish, like french, has negative concord; unlike french, both 'parts' of the negation must occur in the complement of 'fear', if either does. as for the note about modality, all the examples of pleonastic negation in my yiddish corpus have _zoln_ 'shall' as the inflected verb, which is the verb that does the work of the subjunctive mood in yiddish. some of the cases, however, do not seem to me to be irrealis in any obvious way, e.g. 'however much he suffered from her...'--in the context, he DID suffer a great deal-- the text goes on to say that, however much he suffered from her, he still missed her when she died. of course english could use _may_ here--however much he may have suffered from her--so perhaps there is something irrealis going on.Mail to author|Respond to list|Read more issues|LINGUIST home page|Top of issue
um.cc.umich.edu>Well, folks, if we're going to be discussing negation, let's make sure we're all playing with something like the same deck. Herewith my list of English NPI's (Negative Polarity Items). Some of these are no doubt idiosyncratic, others are well-worn classics; and it is no doubt also incomplete. But it's a start. I'm sure most of you have your own; let's merge them. Following that is a list of English negative lexical items, idioms, and constructions, i.e, things that license the occurrence of NPI's, for which I use the cover term "Negative Trigger". These are lightly classified for my own convenience; feel free to reclassify them for yours. Negative Polarity Items ------------------------------- any ever [Suppletes w/ any] any more much, many at all yet last long, take long, be long [But NOT: a long time] in weeks, in ages, in a coon's age, in donkey's years, in the longest time until [With Punctual Predicates] need / dare [As Modals] bother [+ V-ing] can seem to [+ V-inf] care to [+ V-inf] mind [+ V-ing] can help (X-self) [+ V-ing] the hell, the fuck, in the world too [= very] (be) all that [+ Adj/Adv] ...but that/but what [+ S] ...to speak of budge a red cent do a thing, bat an eye, lift a finger, drink a drop, give/be worth (a) shit/damn, ... [Open Class: V + Minimal DO Idioms] Negative "Triggers" ------------------------------------ a) Negatives Proper not [Immediately Commanding Clausemate NPI] [Immediately Commanding Non-Clausemate NPI] [Non-Immediately Commanding NPI] [Transported Non-Incorporated] Transported Incorporated: doubt, improbable, unlikely Incorporated In Vb/Adj: dislike, dissatisfied, prevent, dissuade Neg Frequency Adverbs: seldom, rarely Neg Degree Adverbs: hardly, barely, scarcely keep [+ from] only few [But NOT: a few] not many b) Interrogatives: Yes/No Questions Negative Questions Wh- Questions Tag Questions Embedded Questions [whether = if] the question of c) Hypotheticals: If-Clauses When-Clauses Embedded Whether-Questions Wh-X-Ever Clauses d) Comparison: Equatives: at least as ... as [Note: Different Potentialities] exactly as ... as [ For Triggering NPI's] Comparatives: [In Than-Clauses Only] Less-Comparatives Lexical Comparative: prefer Idiomatic Comparative: would rather no more/not any more ... than not much ... -er Superlatives [In Of-Phrases Only] Lexical Superlatives: first, last, ultimate e) Others before, by the time [Counterfactually] beyond almost surprised too odd, strange hard, tough, difficult, a bitch unless, except(ing) lack, (be) missing, (be) without (the) chances (be) 1 in 100 / 100 to 1 (/ *even) that ... ------------------------------- These are, to put it mildly, a mixed lot. You find some of the oldest (e.g, need/dare as modals) and youngest (e.g, ...NOT!) phenomena in the language as negatives, and there's irregularity enough to frustrate any searcher for order. The single most relevant remark on negation that I've encountered in 20 years of studying it was made by Fred Lupke. He characterized negation in English as a strange place where the boundaries are thin; the last stronghold of ancient parts of the language, and the first place where young, headstrong constructions crop up, creep in, and strut around irritating people. In his phrase, a "Poets' Corner". I've always found that incredibly apt. -John Lawler University of MichiganMail to author|Respond to list|Read more issues|LINGUIST home page|Top of issue