LINGUIST List 3.96

Fri 31 Jan 1992

Disc: Youse, Celtic, But

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1. , Re: 3.66 Youse...
2. , Re 3.78 Celtic Etymology
3. , but

Message 1: Re: 3.66 Youse...

Just a couple of quick personal notes on "you-se/uns".
When I was growing up in Cambridge, Mass. in the fifties
(and sixties) "youse" and "youse guys" were the standard
"substandard" plural forms among middle class kids,
as in "Whachyouse (=What youse) guys gonna do
thisafta (= this after[noon])?"

I can also report that "you'uns" was used in Bloomington, IN,
when I was there (mid seventies). I'll never forget my
amazement (and initial puzzlement!) when a sergeant (a
"townie", i.e. local native) in my reserve unit asked a group
of us (who had absented themselves for quite a while): "Where
you'uns been at?"

tom shannon, uc berkeley
tshannongarnet.berkeley.edu

Adding to Norval Smith's debunking of the Avalon/Arran/Aran/Erin connection,
I'd like to point out that there can't really be a connection between Avalon
and Erin. The key lies in the deceptive final "n". About the time when
the whole Arthurian bit is supposed to have happened, the Old Irish for
"Ireland" was "Eriu" (with an acute accent on the e) -- compare modern
Irish "Eire" /e:rE/ (E=schwa). The dative of "Eriu" was "Erinn". "Eriu"
looks unlike Avalon to me. Now admittedly, according to Thurneysen's Old
Irish Grammar Eriu<Erin and not the other way around, but this apparently
happened in Early Irish, which I assume was long before the romantics
started associating these words with one another. Of course I could be wrong.

In some swiss french you find an "ou bien" (or/or what) at the end
of a question, like "tu viens ou bien ?" (Are you comming or what).
You can even have it in affirmative sentences when there is some
doubt about what is said.
In some french french you can find "ou quoi" in the same
situation.
Marc