LINGUIST List 4.860

Tue 19 Oct 1993

Disc: Null object

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Directory

  1. , Re: Come with
  2. , Re: 4.834 Null-Object
  3. Swann Philip, 4.840 Can/Can't, Come with
  4. "Ellen F. Prince", 4.834 Null-object

Message 1: Re: Come with

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 09:28:18 Re: Come with
From: <vangsnesfoli.uib.no>
Subject: Re: Come with

Joe Stemberger's suggestion that the "come with"-construction has a Swedish
origin since it is commonly used in Minnesota, made me go for it: What if
we said Scandinavian? In Norwegian corresponding constructions with 'med'
('with') + the verbs 'vaere' ('be') and 'bli' ('become', though more
general; e.g. used as auxillary in (perifrastic) passives) are perfectly
natural and commonly used. Interestingly, in Norwegian child-language,
these combinations of 'vaere'/'bli' and 'med' are somtimes analyzed as own
verbs, yielding 'vaeme' and 'blime' which subsequently are assigned
tense-markers. I believe the following is an authentic example:

(1) Vae-m-te ikke du paa kino?
 be-with-PAST not you on cinema
 'Didn't you come along to the cinema?'

where adult/standard Norwegian is:

(2) Var du ikke med p} kino?
 be-PAST you not with on cinema

One could ask where the null-object is in (1), and in fact I don't believe
there is one even in standard Norwegian. Consider the following example:

(3) Hvis vi skal vaere med i EF, maa vi gi spanjolene litt fisk
 if we shall be with in EEC must we give Spaniards-the a-little fish
 'If we are going to take part (join) in the EEC, we must give the

 Spaniards a little fish'

In my opinion 'med' is best analyzed as a verbal particle/adverb not
carrying any th-role (just like many other "prepositions" in Norwegian),
and hence, not selecting any PRO-object either.

BTW: I believe Finnish also has corresponding constructions, using the
postposition 'mukaan'. So, "Come with!" would be (in the singular): "Tule
mukaan!" (and in Norwegian: "Bli med!")

0ystein Alexander Vangsnes - vangsnesfoli.uib.no
 vangsnesviita2.helsinki.fi
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Message 2: Re: 4.834 Null-Object

Date: 18 Oct 93)8:34:26
From: <GOWLETTbeattie.uct.ac.za>
Subject: Re: 4.834 Null-Object

The expression "come with" is very common in South African English,
more particularly among the under-forties. Here it is normally taken
to be the influence of Afrikaans, which has 'saamkom' corresponding
to the German 'mitkommen'. Thus 'Kom jy saam?'. 'Are you coming
with?' Less frequently heard is 'going with', as in 'I'm going with'
cf. Afrikaans 'Ek gaan saam'.
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Message 3: 4.840 Can/Can't, Come with

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 07:27:00 4.840 Can/Can't, Come with
From: Swann Philip <swanndivsun.unige.ch>
Subject: 4.840 Can/Can't, Come with

YMCA = y moyen de coucher avec (at least pre 1940 usage in France)

[This is the most trivial fact I have ever posted anywhere...]

Philip Swann
University of Geneva
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Message 4: 4.834 Null-object

Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1993 11:03:06 4.834 Null-object
From: "Ellen F. Prince" <ellencentral.cis.upenn.edu>
Subject: 4.834 Null-object

>from: "Reinhard (Ron) F. Hahn" <rhahnu.washington.edu>
>subject: Re: "Go with," Non-American versus American English morphology
>How is it in Yiddish? Do you say something like "Ken ikh
>mitkumen/mitgeyn?" or "Ken ikh kumen/geyn mit?"?

yiddish: fine: ken ikh mitkumen/mitgeyn?
 out: *ken ikh kumen/geyn mit?

 fine: ikh kum/gey mit.

yiddish has widespread and productive object-drop (given the right discourse
context, of course), which has, i suspect, inspired the non-productive and
highly constrained english (via yinglish) imperative 'enjoy!', apparently
limited to situations where food has been offered the hearer.

ellen prince
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