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Many thanks to our moderators for the nice name for this topic, and to Elise Morse-Gagne for wonderfully clear and helpful account of the known history of possessive "that's" as in "the pencil that's lead is broken". Her conclusion is that although there was a similar form with similar use in OE it seems to have died out and the modern form is a re-invention. If this is right, then wouldn't it support the general point that some of us see behind the debate, namely that relative THAT is a pronoun, and not a mere subordinator (Complementiser), pace the received wisdom? Otherwise why should we use it as the basis for a new form? Especially in view of the phonological difference between it and the demonstrative THAT. Notice that possessive "that's" is pronounced with a schwa, unlike the demonstrative. Dick Hudson Dept of Phonetics and Linguistics, University College London, Gower Street, London WC1E 6BT (071) 387 7050 ext 3152Mail to author|Respond to list|Read more issues|LINGUIST home page|Top of issue