LINGUIST List 8.1056

Mon Jul 14 1997

Qs: Idiom, not..until, E. Darwin

Editor for this issue: Martin Jacobsen <martylinguistlist.org>

Directory

1. Alan S. Kaye, Semantic Evolution of Idiom
2. Hiroaki Tanaka, Query: not...until/Until..., ...not
3. PAUL FOULKES, Darwin's speech synthesiser

I am hoping that some linguist out there can offer an explanation
and/or parallel to the following hypothesis of mine:

There is a word in Egyptian Arabic which is unique to the Arabic
dialectological world. Lit., 'in/on his earth land' and 'in/on your
earth/land'> 'also'. Can this be traced through something like:

'on common ground'

The 'your' gets the addressee involved in the transition from 'his'.

This is puzzling.

I will post a summary if there are enough responses which are germane.
Thank you very much. Please rsvp:
akayefullerton.edu

Alan Kaye
Linguistics
California State University, Fullerton,
Fullerton, CA 92634

Dear Linguists,
 I have a problem, arguing with Dr. Renaat Declerck about 
the usage of "not...until," about which I wrote a paper to
argue against Declerck (1995). He counter-argued to my
writing in Declerck(1996). It seems that Declerck is right about 
what I am going to ask you about the implication of "not...until."
Since he is also a non-native speaker of English, (although his 
intuition about English usage is even greater than us Japanese
or just mine) I want to know natgive speakers' judgement of this matter.

 The problem is this: (1) "Not...until" like "He didn't wake up
until 9" is said to imply or assert (in Declerck's terminology) that
he did wake up at 9. But what about if we move "until" phrase before
"not" clause, like "Until 9, he didn't wake up"?

Does it mean or imply that he did wake up 9? If so, what is the difference
between the original "not...until 9" and the rephrased "Until 9,
..not..."?

 I will quote two actual examples from "The Daily Telegraph." an one
invented example. Please make any commnets about the implication of
the above actualization problem, i.e., whether or not the sentences
imply that the event of the "not" clause is actualized/actually occur
at the time of "until" clause specifies. And do they mean the same
thing to you as "not...until" phrasing?

(2) College barbers have not been long extinct. "Until" the popularity
of the Volunteer movement cast a military air over civilian manners,
the cultivation of beards and moustaches was "not" allowed by the
authorities. (The Daily Telegraph, Dec. 21, 1993)

(3) Today's Exchange board meeting will consider the results of recent
tests which connected members' computers to the central Taurus
system for the first time. A spokeswoman said: "Until" that testing began
in January we could "not" make a realistic ssessment of the system.
(The Daily Telegraph, Mar. 11, 1993)

(4) Detective: Do you know what Mary was doing on the night of August
1st?
 Landlady: Until 10 that night, she didn't come home.
 (What about "She didn't come home until 10 that night"?)

 I'm looking forward to your any comments on this problem. Thanks a
lot in advance. Please e-mail me directly to the following address.

Best wishes, 
 
Hiroaki Tanaka

Associate Professor
Faculty of Integrated Arts and Sciences
Tokushima University, Japan
 
1-1, Minamijousanjioma,
Tokushima, 770,
Japan

phone & fax: +81 886 56 7125
e-mail: hiro-tias.tokushima-u.ac.jp

I'm posting this on behalf of someone not on the list, who is
interested in a speech synthesis machine developed by Erasmus Darwin
(Charles' grandfather).

The only description of this machine that we know of exists in notes
in Darwin's TEMPLE OF NATURE, pp 119-20:

"...I contrived a wooden mouth with lips of soft leather, and with a
valve over the back part of it for nostrils, both which could be
quickly opened or closed by the pressure of the fingers, the vocality
was given by a silk ribbon about an inch long and a quarter of an inch
wide stretched between two bits of smooth wood a little hollowed; so
that when a gentle current of air from bellows was blown on the edge
of the ribbon, it gave an agreeable tone, as it vibrated between the
wooden sides, much like a human voice. This head pronounced the p, b,
m, and the vowel a, with so great nicety as to deceive all who heard
it unseen, when it pronounced the words mama, papa, map, pam; and had
a most plaintive tone, when the lips were gradually closed. My other
occupations prevented me from proceeding in the further constuction of
this machine; which might have required but 13 movements, as shown in
the above analysis, unless some variety of musical note was to be
added to the vocality produced in the larynx; all of which movements
might communicate with the keys of a harpsichord or forte piano, and
perform the song as well as the accompaniment; or which if built in a
gigantic form, might speak so loud as to command an army or instruct a
crowd."

Can anyone shed any light at all on this device? Has anyone ever seen
other references to it, and even better a picture of it? Did it really
work? Has it been used as a basis for other synthesisers?

We'd be most grateful for any help whatsoever. I'll post a summary of
course.


Many thanks in advance,
Paul Foulkes

**



Paul Foulkes
Department of Linguistics and Phonetics
University of Leeds
Leeds LS2 9JT

p.foulkesleeds.ac.uk
tel: 0113-233 3564 (secretary: 233 3563)
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/linguistics/

Paul Foulkes
Department of Linguistics and Phonetics
University of Leeds
Leeds LS2 9JT

p.foulkesleeds.ac.uk
tel: 0113-233 3564 (secretary: 233 3563)
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/linguistics/

Paul Foulkes
Department of Linguistics and Phonetics
University of Leeds
Leeds LS2 9JT

p.foulkesleeds.ac.uk
tel: 0113-233 3564 (secretary: 233 3563)
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/linguistics/