LINGUIST List 9.796

Thu May 28 1998

Sum: Italian NP

Editor for this issue: Martin Jacobsen <>


  1. bingfu, summary of Italian NP

Message 1: summary of Italian NP

Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 16:46:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: bingfu <>
Subject: summary of Italian NP

Dear Netters,

	A while ago, I posted the following query. Longogbardi 1994
provides the following paradigm.

a. Il mio Giani ha finalmente telefonato	
 the my Gianni finally called up

b. *Mio Gianni ha finalmente telefonato
 my Gianni finally called up

c. Gianni mio ha finalmente telefonato		
 Gianni my finally called up
 Gianni my finally called up

d. Il Gianni mio ha finalmente telefonato	
 the Gianni my finally called up

He accounts for the paradigm in formalist terms and takes them as
crucial evidence for N movement hypothesis.

My questions are:

1. Is there any functional explanation?

2. Is there any meaning difference among a, c and d, especially
between c and d.

	Bingfu Lu

	I now got eight responses and the following is my summary for
your information. If somebody needs all these responses, let me know
and I will forward them to the individual.


Most importantly, several netters pointed out that the four sentences
belong to different Italian dialects. Specifically, (a) is of
standard Italian (Northern dialect) and (c) and (d) are of Southern

The explanation of the pragmatic differences among the four sentences
seem to be various form person to person.

Francesca Fici points out that both (b) and (d) are bad.

Rick Mc Callister says that while article + possessive + noun is the
norm in standard Italian for inanimate objects, the article is dropped
for human relationships.

Giampaolo Poletto provides a very detailed explanation of the
differences among the four. In his, opinions, (b) is not completely
bad, but just not complete.

Nigel J. Ross claims: (b). could more or less be heard in fast speech,
the article "il" being just about lost. Nevertheless, there would be
some slight slurred indication of the presence of "il". In addition
to regional difference, (c) could also suggest a slightly stronger
involvement, perhaps indicating a closer affection (than a.) In the
Italian versions of "Oh my God!": "O mio Dio!" and "O Dio mio!", the
second is in some ways stronger, more tragic, and - of course - more
southern (more histrionic??).

	Thanks for the followin netters who offered their responses.

Giulia Bencini <
Pier Marco Bertinetto" <bertiNETSNS.IT
Rick Mc Callister <rmccalliMUW.Edu
Francesca Fici <fraficiCESIT1.UNIFI.IT
Seth Jerchower <sejerchowerJTSA.EDU
Gabriele Pallotti <
Giampaolo Poletto <>, <>
Nigel J. Ross" <

Bingfu Lu
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