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Summary Details


Query:   Sum: Subtraction in Numerals
Author:  Ivan A Derzhanski
Submitter Email:  click here to access email
Linguistic LingField(s):   General Linguistics
Linguistic Theories
Morphology

Summary:   A FORTNIGHT AND A DAY AGO, IN (LINGUIST 13.3102), I ASKED:

> IN ENGLISH THE NUMBER 19 IS CALLED _NINETEEN_ `9 AND 10'.
>
> IN HINDI 19 IS `1 TO 20', BUT 18 IS `8 AND 10'.

[LATIN DRAWS THE LINE BETWEEN 17 AND 18, YORUBA BETWEEN 14 AND 15.]

> IN WHAT OTHER PLACES DO LANGUAGES DRAW THE LINE? FOR INSTANCE, IS
> THERE A LANGUAGE WHERE 17 IS `3 TO 20', BUT 16 IS `6 AND 10'? HOW
> ABOUT ONE IN WHICH 16 IS `4 TO 20', BUT 15 IS `5 AND 10'?

ADAM WERLE
C.A.M. WILLIAMS
ECE WAYNE
HANNELE NICHOLSON
JOHN LAWLER
JOHN LYNCH
KEIRA GEBBIE BALLANTYNE
MARK CHAMBERLIN
MARTIN WEIKMANN
R魹 VIREDAZ
YIWOLA AWOYALE

WROTE TO ME IN THE FOLLOWING DAYS.

THE RESPONSES TTO THE GENERAL QUESTION (WHERE DO LANGUAGES DRAW
THE LINE BETWEEN ADDITION AND SUBTRACTION?) SUGGEST THAT IF A
LANGUAGE USES SUBTRACTION AT ALL, IT IS LIKELY TO DO SO ALREADY
IN THE FIRST DECADE, USUALLY STARTING FROM 7 (TITAN AND BUIN IN
PAPUA NEW GUINEA, YAPESE IN MICRONESIA, ETC.) OR 8 (THE FINNIC
BRANCH OF THE URALIC FAMILY, NUUCHAHNULTH (NOOTKA) AND ITS CLOSE KIN).
MORE EXAMPLES CAN BE FOUND BY ANALYSING THE DATA IN MARK ROSENFELDER'S
COLLECTION OF NUMERALS UP TO 10, HTTP://WWW.ZOMPIST.COM/NUMBERS.SHTML

NO ONE ADDRESSED THE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS (ARE THERE LANGUAGES THAT
DRAW THE LINE BETWEEN 15 AND 16? BETWEEN 16 AND 17?), SO I CONCLUDE
THAT THE EXISTENCE OF SUCH LANGUAGES IS QUITE UNLIKELY. HOWEVER,
SOME ROMANCE LANGUAGES DO CHANGE THE PATTERN IN PRECISELY THOSE
PLACES, SWITCHING FROM `ONES-TEEN' TO `TEN-ONES': SPANISH _QUINCE_
`15' BUT `DIECISEIS' `16', CATALAN _SETZE_ `16' BUT _DISSET_ `17'.

- IVAN A DERZHANSKI

LL Issue: 13.3329
Date Posted: 17-Dec-2002
Original Query: Read original query