LINGUIST List 11.1970

Tue Sep 19 2000

Sum: The Sign/Addendum

Editor for this issue: Karen Milligan <karenlinguistlist.org>


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  • karchung, The sign (3)

    Message 1: The sign (3)

    Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 07:47:05 +0800
    From: karchung <karchungccms.ntu.edu.tw>
    Subject: The sign (3)


    Here is the third posting of data collected on names for the sign in different languages. I sincerely thank all the people who responded, some of whom I remember from the previous survey. I *really* appreciate your input and contribution! I was just a bit disappointed in the response - I may have had overly high expectations after the overwhelming response to the first survey. So where the data wasn't served up to me on a silver e-platter, I went to the data. I used google.com to find community message boards, tourist agencies, and Internet service sites - even subscribed to language-specific computer discussion lists - one country/language at a time. I was amply rewarded: I consider the data I dug up in this way for languages like Georgian, Tajiki and Mongolian to be real treasures. I found the enthusiastic response of the Occitan group very interesting. It seemed to show evidence of (very admirable) active efforts at reviving and updating a minority language. I was also pleased to get data on international sign languages. The preponderance of 'monkey' related words is notable. Especially interesting is Croatian, which uses the *English* word 'monkey' (and not the Serbian term), though 'monkey' is not to my knowledge used in this way in English at all! (My apologies to Mirjana Dedaic for not including your data in the earlier survey.) I have included responses reporting no known word for in a specific language. This data is as valuable as receiving a name for , if just a bit less fun. The same applies when use of the English 'at' (or in the case of Dharmsala Tibetan, 'at the rate of'!) is reported. These reports give us lots of information about how far the Internet/e-mail technology has spread (i.e. to just a few rich techies or organizations vs. just about everybody, or something in between), the language used to facilitate this spread, and perhaps general patterns of loan word importation, e.g. phonetic loan vs. calque/loan translation vs. original coinage. There are still big gaps - e.g. one correspondent provided the English translation of a Vietnamese term for , but not the original Vietnamese. And there is a string of words in Indian languages which I haven't been able to verify. Well, if you know a word for that hasn't been reported yet, in any language at all, do send it over!

    Karen Steffen Chung National Taiwan University karchungccms.ntu.edu.tw

    Heartfelt thanks to:

    Aanta <aantaboreale.se> Dr. Agrawal <jhagarwalbom6.vsnl.net.in> Arthur <plasticfreenet.am> Ben Bagheri <benpersianoutpost.com> Etrit Bardhi <etritalb-net.com> Joan-Frances Blanc <joan-frances.blancexcite.com> Vesselin Bontchev <bontchevcomplex.is> Hyeon-Woo Cho <langhchoijnc.inje.ac.kr> Laura Daniliuc <laura.daniliucanu.edu.au> Annie D�saulniers <adesaulnhotmail.com> Mirjana N. Dedaic <nelson-dedaict-online.de> (Nelson-Dedaic) Ivan A Derzhanski <iadmath.bas.bg> Andrej Dvorsak <andrej.Dvorsakguest.arnes.si> Gregor Erbach <erbachftw.at> Alexander Fatsis <laotse1976hotmail.com> Nancy Frishberg <nancyffishbird.com> "Robert W. M. Greaves" <rwmghplaw.co.id> Beso Gugushvili <bpgclinet.fi> Roelly Guillaume <roellymagma.cgg.com> Dan Haig <gizardxanatoo.cyborganic.com> Uri Horesh <urihbabel.ling.upenn.edu> Andrew Erik Langkj=E6r?= <aelaint.tele.dk> Peter Malling <mallingasia.dk> Mark Mandel <Mark_Mandeldragonsys.com> Philippe Mennecier <phmcimrs1.mnhn.fr> Michalis Milapides <mmenl.auth.gr> Christopher Miller <miller.christopheruqam.ca, list-occco.asso.fr> Mongolian National Tourism Centre <ntcmongol.net> Victoria Nyst <victorianysthotmail.com> Sinan Oymaci <sinanoymtriosh.com> Dan Parvaz <dparvazunm.edu> Micheu Prat <Micheu.Pratwanadoo.fr> Sankaralingam <umayalpacific.net.sg> Dominic Sansom <sansomdesignis.com.fj> Raija Solatie <raija.solatiekolumbus.fi> Domergue Sumien <d_sumienclub-internet.fr> Tojik (Tajikistan Online Forum: email-noticeboardhost.com) Vasia Staff <staffvasia.com> R�my Viredaz <remy.viredazspan.ch> viplob <viplobphimalmedia.com> Vivien at Tyco International, Hong Kong Colin Whiteley <cwhiteleytycoint.com> Andy Wilcox <andywilcox.the.forthnet.gr>

    Now, the data. I am including only *new* responses; please go to the earlier two summaries for the complete story, as far as I've been able to get it.

    ***************************************** ALBANIAN Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:55:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Etrit Bardhi <etritalb-net.com>

    As far as I know, it is called "Shenja e Majmunit" (The Monkey Sign).

    Etrit

    ***************************************** ARABIC

    Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:17:37 +0300 From: Ivan A Derzhanski <iadmath.bas.bg> To: karchungccms.ntu.edu.tw

    So why should anyone be surprised not to find <> on the keyboards of Arabic typewriters? It is so obviously a feature of the Roman alphabet, and that only as used for English, as one of your Hungarian correspondents points out.

    ***************************************** ARMENIAN Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:59:30 +0500 From: "Arthur" <plasticfreenet.am>

    I really don't know the word for sign in Armenian. Internet is quite new to us (only something about 5 years for most of the users, not professionals). We have a discussion group where the problems of Internet terminolgy are discussed. You can find it at news.freenet.am. I know a Russian word for it: "sobachka", as you use Russian much in Armenia.

    Arthur, http://www.plasticsurgery.am Land and Culture Organization, http://www.lcousa.org ******************************************* BULGARIAN

    1. Thu, 06 Mar 1997 10:32:39 +0000 From: Vesselin Bontchev <bontchevcomplex.is> I see that you are missing the Bulgarian name. :-) In Bulgarian we call it "maimunsko a" - monkey's a.

    Regards, Vesselin - Vesselin Vladimirov Bontchev, e-mail: bontchevcomplex.is

    2. Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:17:37 +0300 From: Ivan A Derzhanski <iadmath.bas.bg> To: karchungccms.ntu.edu.tw

    In Bulgarian the names used are, in descending order of frequency, _majmunsko <a>_ `monkey <a>', _majmunka_ `little monkey' and _majmuna_ `monkey, ape'; and one of my acquaintances tells a story about a female colleague of his who became the hit of the party by stating her email address as _Petrova, majmuna_ (which means literally `Petrova, an ape', though intended to mean `my user name is simply my surname, then you write an <> and the domain, which is the same as yours'). (Surname changed to protect the innocent.)

    Ivan A Derzhanski <http://www.math.bas.bg/~iad/>; H: cplx Iztok bl 91, 1113 Sofia, Bulgaria <iadmath.bas.bg> W: Dept for Math Lx, Inst for Maths & CompSci, Bulg Acad of Sciences

    ***************************************** CANTONESE

    I actually haven't heard of anyone to describe the in Cantonese or Mandarin, we, including our colleagues in Mainland China always call this sign in English i.e. 'at'. Sorry I cannot help in this issue.

    Vivien

    ***************************************** CROATIAN

    1. Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:46:18 +0200 From: nelson-dedaict-online.de (Nelson-Dedaic) To: karchungccms.ntu.edu.tw

    I believe I have responded to your query long ago, but I will still repeat my answer, since I do not see Croatian among the languages for which you have data.

    So, in Croatian, the sign is called MONKEY. The English word is used, and not Croatian. The Croats are usually surprised when I tell them that Americans do not call the same way they do.

    Mirjana N. Dedaic Georgetown

    2. From: Mima <mimaerols.com>

    Croats call this symbol: (which appears in e-mail addresses) MONKEY. When I first heard it, I thought it was originally MAJMUN in Croatian, and they just translated it for me (since I live in the U.S.). So, the next time I used it as MAJMUN and they laughed at me!

    (copied from an old LINGUIST post on 'pseudo-loanwords') ***************************************** FAROESE Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:22:23 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andrew_Erik_Langkj=E6r?= <aelaint.tele.dk>

    The Faroe-islands use the Danish "snabel-a", which you already know means "elephants trunk-a". The Faroe Islands has been under Danish rule for several centuries now, so the influence is obvious - still they have their own language, which I don't know the english name for.

    ************************************************** FIJIAN

    1. Fri, 25 Aug 2000 11:33:12 -1000 From: Dominic Sansom <sansomdesignis.com.fj>

    Bula (greetings) Karen You have a very interesting project. I do not thing the Fijian language has got round to giving punctuation marks or typographical symbols name. I am acquainted with the person who is in charge of the Fijian Dictionary Project and I will ask him and get back to you. Dominic Sansom Email domsansomdesign.com (work) domkaiviti.com (personal) Fiji News, Forums and Chat http://www.KaiViti.com is worth a look

    2. Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:51:32 -1000 From: Dominic Sansom <sansomdesignis.com.fj

    I have had a talked to Paul Gerraty (Head of the Fijian Dictionary project) and he said there is no name for the at sign,,, sorry. Is there an English word for it... apart from the "at" sign? Maybe there should be and international competition (sponsored by one of the large email companies, seeing as the re-birth of the "at" sign is because of the explosion of email) to find a proper name for it. Now that would be a great project. Let me know what you think Regards Dom ps. Paul Gerraty has said he will look at coining a Fijian word for the "at" sign. I'll let you know if he does.

    ********************************************

    FINNISH

    Sun, 13 Aug 2000 12:22:45 +0300 From: "Raija Solatie" <raija.solatiekolumbus.fi>

    In Finnish we can call the sign "miuku mauku". The term is related to the way of cats' meowing. In Finnish the cats say "MIAU".

    Raija Solatie Mme Raija Solatie linguiste/Linguist Kaskihara 20 02340 Espoo Finlande/Finnland t�l./Tel.: +358-9-8136989 e-mail : raija.solatiekolumbus.fi http://www.kolumbus.fi/raija.solatie

    ***************************************** FRENCH

    1. Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:17:54 EDT From: "Annie D�saulniers" <adesaulnhotmail.com> To: karchungccms.ntu.edu.tw

    (Canada) I am French Canadian. I always heard people call this sign: "a" commercial.

    Annie D�saulniers

    2. Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:10:12 +0200 From: R�my Viredaz <remy.viredazspan.ch> In French (my language), by contrast, usage is extremely uncertain. Most people I know (but they are not computer specialists) have used phrases meaning something like "... the sign..., you know" , where "..." indicates a silence, optionally with a sign of the finger in the air. I think "at" is rather common, as are Anglicisms in general in the language of computers and Internet. "Arobas" (various spellings) I have mostly found in normative sources, though I did hear it once on TV.

    Remy Viredaz

    3. Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:44:31 +0200 From: "ROELLY Guillaume" <roellymagma.cgg.com>

    >I'm french and yesterday I spoke half an hour with a Norwegian to make him >know my e-mail adress. The problem was this particular sign. > >He knew only the Norwegian term for it which meant nothing to me ! >He tried to make me see by saying he pressed the keys "AltGr" and "2". But >as we do not share the same type of keyboards it's ~(tilde) for me ! > >Moreover I was told when I started computing in 1982 that in french the name >for it was "aronde" wich shall be a play on words for "ronde" means round so >"aronde" sounds like "a ronde" (round a) >"aronde" is also a real french word used only in the "queue d'aronde" >expression meaning a dovetail in joinery businness.

    4. Mon, 8 Jun 1998 13:28:16 +0200 From: "ROELLY Guillaume" <roellymagma.cgg.com>

    Another interresting one I translated for you

    ** The most common term in french seem to be "arobase". I find "aronde" quite nice. It means swallow in old french therefor the "queue d'aronde" expression in architecture and joinery business. **I would prefer "nombril" (navel) whitch shall refer to it's form, it's central position and the ego. Each and everyone proudly displays this sign in the middle of his address...

    - ---Message d'origine----- De : Philippe Mennecier <phmcimrs1.mnhn.fr> * : roellymagma.cgg.com <roellymagma.cgg.com> Date : lundi 8 juin 1998 11:32 Objet :

    Le terme le plus courant en fran�ais semble �tre "arobase". Je trouve que "aronde" n'est pas mal. Cela dit, il signifie tout simplement hirondelle en vieux fran�ais, d'o* l'expression queue d'aronde en architecture et en menuiserie. Personnellement, je pr�f�rerais le terme de "nombril", qui r�f�re *sa forme, * sa position centrale et * ego. Chacun arbore fi�rement ce signe au mileu de son adresse...

    ***************************************** GEORGIAN Mon, 21 Aug 2000 01:21:29 -0700 From: "Beso Gugushvili" <bpgclinet.fi>

    "kudiani a" = letter 'a' with a tail

    beso

    ***************************************** GERMAN 1. Mon, 6 Jan 1997 18:08:33 +0100 (MEZ) From: Jochen Ziegenbalg <jochen.ziegenbalgoe.uni-tuebingen.de>

    (Germany) Just in case the following description is not yet in the list: In Germany, the -symbol is occasionally called "Schweinekringel", which is probably best translated as "pig-tail" or, maybe, even better as "piggy-tail".

    Jochen Zieenbalg

    2. Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:10:12 +0200 From: R�my Viredaz <remy.viredazspan.ch>

    (Switzerland) In German I have always heard Affenschwanz, though from one groupe of people working in the same offices, in Switzerland. Your material would be consistent with the guess that Klammeraffe is used in Germany while Affenschwanz is used in Switzerland. However, things may be more complicated.

    Remy Viredaz

    3. Thu, 24 Aug 2000 19:40:50 +0200 From: Gregor Erbach <erbachftw.at>

    (Austria) I have heard the word "Alphakringel" (alpha-ring) used for the "" sign in German, but I don't think it's used very frequently. Gregor Erbach

    ***************************************** GREEK

    1. Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:25:02 +0200 From: "Dr. Michalis Milapides" <mmenl.auth.gr> Organization: A.U.Th. - School of English

    I don't know whether I can send some additional information about the term we use in Greece for . Lots of people now instead of the English translation use the term "papaki" which means "duckling".

    2. Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:04:35 +0100 From: "Wilcox" <andywilcox.the.forthnet.gr>

    Your Greek informants, perhaps because they are adults, missed the young Greek's word for "", which is "pap'aki" = little duck: p'apia (=duck) + diminutive affix. This is used to refer to the symbol itself: in reading aloud/dictating an e-mail address, "sto(n)" etc. can used in just the way that one of your informants described, though "pap'aki" will also be heard. andywilcox.the.forthnet.gr andy sto wilcox tel'ia the tel'ia forthnet tel'ia gr or andy pap'aki wilcox tel'ia the tel'ia forthnet tel'ia gr ("dot" is also coming into increasing use in place of "tel'ia")

    The most plausible etymology for "at" in English is that, in the days when invoices were prepared by hand, "" was used to show the unit price: so 5 gadgets *10 : *50 to be read as five gadgets at ten pounds, fifty pounds Andrew Wilcox

    3. Tue, 15 Aug 2000 00:04:43 -0400 (EDT) From: alexisbabel.ling.upenn.edu (Alexis Dimitriadis)

    Sorry I waited till after your summary to write, but Greek is usually well represented in the list---as it was in this case, but you did not get the whole story: When read as part of an email address the sign in Greek would be translated as your respondents said, but as a symbol on its own I've often heard it referred to as "aftaki" `little ear' --- seems to be a popular image crosslinguistically. (Surely I'm not the only Greek speaker on the list who has encountered this?) Alexis

    4. Sun, 20 Aug 2000 22:06:25 GMT From: "Alexander Fatsis" <laotse1976hotmail.com>

    Regarding its name by Greeks we all now call it "papaki" which means little duck. "Papia is the name of the duck and "-aki" is used to show that something is small. Sometimes is also called at. But this now is rare.

    5. Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:58:28 EEST From: "Costas Gabrielatos" <cgabrielatoshotmail.com>

    I read your intersting summary on ''. I'd like to correct the information on the Greek expression for it, though. I haven't heard anyone call it by any possible translation of 'at'. Everybody calls it /pa'paki/, which means'duckling'.

    Costas Gabrielatos (Greece)

    ****************************************** GREENLANDIC

    Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:52:58 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andrew_Erik_Langkj=E6r?= <aelaint.tele.dk>

    I have received an -version from Greenland. They use the Danish snabel-a but sometimes translate it directly to Greenlandic: a-nagguaatsulik (a with elephants trunk).

    Andrew Langkj�r Opasia Editorial Staff Tele Denmark Internet

    ****************************************** HEBREW Sun, 13 Aug 2000 06:46:22 -0400 From: Uri Horesh <urihbabel.ling.upenn.edu>

    In Hebrew, as I believe it was a few years ago, the most common name is "shtrudel". When I sometimes read out an e-mail address and call it "at", I often have to clarify and say "shtrudel", so that my interlocutor will understand what I'm talking about. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Uri Horesh Graduate Student 265 S 22nd St Apt 1M Department of Linguistics Philadelphia PA 19103-5566 University of Pennsylvania USA Phone: (215) 732-7133 Cell : (215) 205-0668 E-mail: urihbabel.ling.upenn.edu http://spinoza.tau.ac.il/hci/dep/semitic/horesh.html ICQ: 50548643 - ----------------------------------------------------------------- ***************************************** INDIAN LANGUAGES - VARIOUS

    (Note: Can anybody verify any of this data? - KSC)

    1. Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:28:21 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andrew_Erik_Langkj=E6r?= <aelaint.tele.dk>

    Urdu : pay, per,may, key uper, key wahan, key yahan Punjabi : tay, uttay, dey uttay, wich Pushto : Sar(pronounced as sir), ber ser, pa Persian : ber ser, sarray, az, ba Sindhi : may Hindko : ottaN, vichuN Pahari : arr, vitcha Kashmiri : peth, munz Gujri : maN

    2. "Dr. Agrawal" <jhagarwalbom6.vsnl.net.in> August 22, 2000 4:42 AM

    ' ' means "at the rate of " (English). In Hindi, it is "dar se" or "ki dar se"; here 'ki' (Hindi) is for 'at' (English). In Tamil, it is "veedam". Both, "dar se" and "veedam" mean ' at the rate of ' Example : I purchased mangoes "at the rate" of Rupees 10 per kilo.

    J.H. Agarwal Dallas / USA, 22 Aug 2000. J.H. Agarwal 21 Aug 2000.

    ***************************************** INDONESIAN

    Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:19:37 +0700 From: "Robert W. M. Greaves" <rwmghplaw.co.id>

    I asked around in my office here in Indonesia and the consensus among the Indonesian speakers was that in reading or saying e-mail addresses in Indonesian they would read it as "at". The most popular name for it was "a keong" (snail a) but "a kurung" (caged or bracketed a) and "a kura-kura" (turtle a) were also suggested.

    ****************************************** KOREAN

    Tue, 15 Aug 2000 08:12:24 +0900 From: v��� <langhchoijnc.inje.ac.kr> To: <karchungccms.ntu.edu.tw>

    It's also called 'golbaengi-pyo', literally meaning 'golbaengi mark.' The scientific name for 'golbaengi' is written as 'Semisulcospira libertina.' It's completely different from snails. Spirals are the only common feature between gol-baeng-i and dal-paeng-i (Lee's). Hyeon-Woo Cho langhchoijnc.inje.ac.kr

    ***************************************** MANDARIN CHINESE

    Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:22:23 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andrew_Erik_Langkj=E6r?= <aelaint.tele.dk>

    >From the Danish Embassy in Beijing, China, Wang Mei wrote me the following: -symbol in Chinese is (Da Yi Ba a) as long tailed a. andrew

    ******************************************* MONGOLIAN Tue, 22 Aug 2000 22:10:39 +0800 From: "MNTC" <ntcmongol.net> Organization: Mongolian National Tourism Centre

    sign is named in Mongolia "buurunhii dotorh aa" - "A in round circle".

    ******************************************* NEPALI

    Thu, 24 Aug 2000 13:00:18 +0530 From: viplobphimalmedia.com

    i don't know how they write in other languages but here in nepal we simply use for viplob

    ***************************************************** NORWEGIAN Sun, 20 Aug 2000 17:09:45 +0200 From: "The Ant" <aantaboreale.se>

    I can help you out on the Norwegian word for it in case you don't already have it. It's "krull-a" which translate as "curled a" in the same way as you say 'curled hair'

    Aanta

    ******************************************* OCCITAN

    1. Mon, 14 Aug 2000 00:24:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Joan-Frances Blanc <joan-frances.blancexcite.com> To: karchungccms.ntu.edu.tw CC: miller.christopheruqam.ca, list-occco.asso.fr

    In Occitan the sign is called alabast, which means a little hook (ala - the first meaning is "wing") at the pack-saddle of a donkey ("bast"). A local pronounciation arobast (from the Aveyron-Tarn area) has also given the Frenchj word "arobas". See for instance the Tresor dou Felibrige by Frederic Mistral. J F Blanc

    For Occitan speakers I'm writing the Occitan version: Adiu Karen, En Occitan lo signe "" se ditz alabast, co qu'e sun croc pichon penjat al bast dels ases. Una pronociacion locala (Avairon e Tarn) donet tamben lo mot frances arobas. Veser per exemple lo Tresor dou Felibrige.

    On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 14:09:21 -0400, Christopher Miller wrote: > Cossi se sona en oc... ? > (Enviatz-li vostra responsa a : > karchungccms.ntu.edu.tw > e pas a ieu nimai a la list-oc...) > Seria bon que sapia co qu'es l'occitan ! > Chris Miller

    2. Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:17:40 +0200 From: "Micheu.Prat" <Micheu.Pratwanadoo.fr>

    Micheu PRAT 9, l�ia de Chaban�tas 05 000 Gap / Occit�nia Telef�n: 04/92/53/50/73 Telec�pia: 04/92/51/41/63 E.Mail: Micheu.Pratwanadoo.fr

    Gap, divendres, lo 18 d'avost de 2000

    Je crois que tu peux mettre ton petit grain de sel dans cette recherche de Karen Steffen Chung sur les app�lations diverses du symbole "". Y aura-t-il un charentais pour oser d�clarer comme d�signation officielle de ce signe "" le mot "cagouille"? Je compte sur toi car j'ai trouv* cette terminologie tr�s int�r essante *de nombreux �gard: -le mot cagouille est un tr�sor du patrimoine linguistique charentais. -la forme de l'alabast/arobas ressemble bien aux spires escargotiques ou escargotiennes. -Karen Steffen Chung recherche bien des d�signations dialectales et il est bon de montrer la dialectalit* de la langue d'oil. A Dieu siatz Coralament e amistosament. De c�r e d'�c. Micheu "Pretz, Paratge, Larguesa" Mem�ria trobadorenca, Occit�nia encuei.

    3. lo signe "": arr�ba Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 14:06:21 +0200 From: Domergue Sumien <d_sumienclub-internet.fr>

    Prepausi en occitan "una arr�ba"

    - Ven de l'espanh�l "una arroba" qu'a dos senses (lo signe , una unitat de pes tradicionala).

    - Lo catalan a calcat l'espanh�l en disent "una arrova" (recomandacion del TermCat). En catalan "arrova" significa dempu�i longtemps l'unitat de pes e, per calc de l'espanh�l, significa tanben u�i lo signe .

    - Lo franc�s ditz "un arobas", "un arobase", qu'es una adaptacion mal compresa del plural espanh�l "la arroba, las arrobas".

    Per un c�p qu'av�m una solucion latina per designar un simb�l ligat a l'auta tecnologia, ne cal profechar.

    Mas "arr�ba" interditz pas d'emplegar de sinonims occitans eventuals coma "a comercial / a comerciala", "cagarauleta", etc.

    Soi pas convencut per l'ipot�si "alabast/arobast/arobas".

    Domergue Sumien

    ***************************************** ROMANIAN

    Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 15:41:13 +1000 From: Laura Daniliuc <laura.daniliucanu.edu.au>

    In Romanian, there are the following names for : 1. Rom "a-rond" = cca English "a-round" 2. Rom "coada de maimuta" = English "monkey tail" 3. Rom "la" = English "at"

    Laura & Radu Daniliuc Australian National University Faculty of Arts, Department of Linguistics <laura.daniliucanu.edu.au>

    ******************************************* SAMI (LAPP) Sun, 20 Aug 2000 17:09:45 +0200 From: "The Ant" <aantaboreale.se> Funny question. :) Yet in my Sami language and the two i know of - we haven't got a special word for the as of yet ( yes i do think we will create on in the near future. )

    Aanta ******************************************* SIGN LANGUAGE

    1. in French Sign Language Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:52:49 -0800 From: Nancy Frishberg <nancyffishbird.com>

    I have been giving a talk for several years about "Air Graphics" in which I describe how American Sign Language incorporates various punctuation marks, non-alphabetic graphics, charts, maps, and so forth into the language. I recently gave a new version of this talk at the 7th international conference on Theoretical Issues in Sign Language Research, where researchers of more a dozen sign languages were present.

    At that time I invited others to start describing how the languages they research use similar principles. A colleague who works on French Sign Language showed me the sign in French Sign Language (LSF) for E-MAIL. It uses the A-handshape held over an open palm, circling and then landing on the palm. That is, it's a representation of blended with the sign for LETTER (where the dominant hand would in that case use index+middle finger extended to tap, as a postage-stamp).

    These descriptions without gestures are always overly complex. I should just put a QT movie up somewhere and let you point to it. Not this week, but perhaps soon. - Nancy Frishberg +1 650.654.1948 nancyffishbird.com

    2. " sign in sign languages Tue, 15 Aug 2000 12:38:46 -0400 From: Mark_Mandeldragonsys.com

    Yesterday I posted the following to SLLING-L, the sign language linguistics list. So far I have received two replies.

    0. My query: >>>>> What do signers call the symbol "" that is used in email addresses? Are there different names for it in ASL? What about other signed languages?

    The LINGUIST list has just published a request from a linguist who keeps a list of the names for this symbol in forty spoken languages and who is trying to update it. I would like to be able to submit data on sign languages as well. <<<<<

    1. From Dan Parvaz <dparvazunm.edu>, 08/14/2000, 01:27:02 pm: >>>>> The ASL signs I've seen (barring the dreaded SEE sign AT) are either a fingerspelled A-T or an index finger tracing the shape of the as one would write it. I'm a non-native signer, but for the final flourish I tend to twist my wrist in rather than out, which in a right-handed signer has the circle going in the opposite direction from the way "" is represented typographically (at least in the Monaco font I'm looking at now).

    Stay tuned on LIU (Jordanian SL); there are fewer than 5 deaf email users in the country, but they probalby have some way of expressing it. <<<<<

    Dan tells me that he is a non-native signer of LIU and is asking about native Jordanian signers who use email. BTW, "ASL" = American Sign Language, and "LIU" presumably stands for the Arabic name of Jordanian Sign Language.

    2. From Karen Chung (whose edress I do not know) via Nancy Frishberg < nancyffishbird.com>: >>>>> I sent this note directly to Karen Chung (and have received an acknowledgement). I do count on you to repost relevant items from Linguist to SLLING. Meanwhile, I've continued my role as a respondent on things signish at the Ask-A-Linguist panel. Divvy up the service, eh?

    "I have been giving a talk for several years about "Air Graphics" in which I describe how American Sign Language incorporates various punctuation marks, non-alphabetic graphics, charts, maps, and so forth into the language. I recently gave a new version of this talk at the 7th international conference on Theoretical Issues in Sign Language Research, where researchers of more a dozen sign languages were present.

    "At that time I invited others to start describing how the languages they research use similar principles. A colleague who works on French Sign Language showed me the sign in French Sign Language (LSF) for E-MAIL. It uses the A-handshape held over an open palm, circling and then landing on the palm. That is, it's a representation of blended with the sign for LETTER (where the dominant hand would in that case use index+middle finger extended to tap, as a postage-stamp).

    "These descriptions without gestures are always overly complex. I should just put a QT movie up somewhere and let you point to it. Not this week, but perhaps soon." <<<<< (Nancy, please tell Karen for me that at least one sign linguist appreciates such descriptions. Text is much more widely accessible than animations, and this is a phonological description, while the best any movie can do is phonetics.)

    The A-handshape referred to would be that of French Sign Language, which is a closed fist with the thumb extended in the plane of the palm, like the USA "hitchhiking" or "thumbs up" handshape. "QT" would be QuickTime.

    - Mark

    Mark A. Mandel : Dragon Systems, a Lernout & Hauspie company Mark_Mandeldragonsys.com : Senior Linguist 320 Nevada St., Newton, MA 02460, USA : http://www.dragonsys.com

    3. Dan Parvaz <dparvazunm.edu> To: Mark_Mandeldragonsys.com CC: karchung <karchungccms.ntu.edu.tw>, Nancy Frishberg <nancyffishbird.com>

    > Dan tells me that he is a non-native signer of LIU and is asking about > native Jordanian signers who use email. BTW, "ASL" = American Sign > Language, and "LIU" presumably stands for the Arabic name of Jordanian Sign > Language.

    Yup. LIU = lughat ul-ishaarat il-urduniyya, "the language of the sign the Jordanian" :-) I'm still waiting for a response.

    Dan.

    DAN PARVAZ -- Geek-in-Residence University of New Mexico Linguistics Dept dparvaz{unm.edu,lanl.gov} 505.480.9638

    4. Mark_Mandeldragonsys.com "victoria nyst" <victorianysthotmail.com>

    In SL of the Netherlands (NGT)the sign for the symbol is related to the Dutch word for the symbol, which is "monkey tail" (=apestaartje). The NGT sign for (as I have seen it being used)is MONKEY: two cupped B hands scratch the upper torso. Do you want to have an exact descsription, a transcription or a picture? Victoria Nyst, University of Amsterdam

    *************************************** SPANISH and CATALAN

    1. Spanish and Catalan usage has become much more fixed. At the time of your first survey, "arroba" was a bit purist and most people just said "a" or "el signo a", but these days "arroba" is universal.

    Colin Whiteley, cwhiteleytycoint.com

    2. Mon, 4 Sep 2000 08:49:54 +0700 From: "Peter Malling" <mallingasia.dk>

    One more about . One person wrote the following to me: The sign is an old Spanish sign for one "Arroba", a measurement for 25 libras or pound. (11,502 kg in Kastillia, 10.4 kg in Katalunia, 12.5 kg in Aragonia). Hence, in Spanish it's called "Arroba". Peter.

    *************************************** SLOVENE

    Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:09:32 +0100 From: Andrej Dvorsak <andrej.Dvorsakguest.arnes.si> To: karchungccms.ntu.edu.tw Subject:

    sign is called in slovene language "afna" means an ape or monkey.

    Andrej Dvorsak ***************************************** TAGALOG Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:53:10 +0800 From: staffvasia.com

    In Tagalog it is also called "at" sign.

    Vasia Staff

    ****************************************** TAJIKI, FARSI, DARI

    1. In Tajiki (Persian, Dari, Farsi) the sign (at) is call bah which means at. Tojik

    2. Sat, 26 Aug 2000 22:54:28 -0500 From: Ben Bagheri <benpersianoutpost.com>

    Thanks for visiting http://www.PersianOutpost.com. I don't think your question applies to "Persian" language since the language uses a derivative of Arabic alphabet. The sign is used in Western languages that use their common alphabet (I think linguists call them roman languages).

    I have not lived inside of Iran for 18 years but I heard that the recent popularity and advancements of the Internet in the country has forced people to use and refer to the commercial at sign (). Apparently most people who have to somehow use the sign, call it "at" (as do English speakers) and some people use the Persian word "dar" which translates literally to the English word "at".

    ****************************************** TAMIL

    1. Mon, 31 Aug 1998 08:55:36 +0800 From: User <umayalpacific.net.sg>

    in tamil means il (romanised tamil) for example umayalpacific.net.sg - my address - will be written as pacific.net.sg il umayal i.e. tamil il should come after the server's name pacific.net and before the person's name. hope i have made it clear. sankaralingam

    2. In Tamil, it is "veedam". Both, "dar se" and "veedam" mean ' at the rate of ' Example : I purchased mangoes "at the rate" of Rupees 10 per kilo.

    J.H. Agarwal Dallas / USA, 22 Aug 2000. J.H. Agarwal 21 Aug 2000.

    *************************************** TIBETAN

    Mon, 21 Aug 2000 01:02:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Haig <gizardxanatoo.cyborganic.com>

    > karchung: ...Is there a special name for in Tibetan?...

    Uh, no. Actually the Tibetans here in Dharamsala have been known to read email address by saying "karchung at the rate of ccms..." since they only know the sign as something used in accounting or such.

    Tibetans tend to just use the English version of tech words.

    .d *************************************** TURKISH Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:22:02 +0300 From: "Sinan Oymaci" <sinanoymtriosh.com>

    There is no special meaning for sign in Turkish. We call it "et". We use the meaning from English.

    Sinan Oymaci e-mail: sinanoymtriosh.com

    *************************************** VIETNAMESE Mon, 28 Aug 2000 09:55:49 +0700 From: "Peter Malling" <mallingasia.dk>

    In Vietnam it's called a circle-A.

    ***************************************

    WEB PAGES and ARTICLES ONLINE (certain to be incomplete)

    http://art-bin.com/art/asignoftimes.html

    http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~kit/lowly.html

    http://www.universalshape.com/

    http://home.bluemarble.net/~langmin/name.htm

    http://news.freenet.am/cgi-bin/dnewsweb?cmd=article&group=am.comp.terms&item=376&utag=

    http://www.hotwired.com/hardwired/wiredstyle/pickingbrains/index.html

    http://www.herodios.com/herron_tc/atsign.html

    http://users.cybercity.dk/~ccc25414/Snabel.htm

    http://www.quinion.com/words/articles/whereat.htm

    http://www.netsurf.ch/arobas.html

    http://home.t-online.de/home/hanno_kuehnert/atengli.htm In German: http://home.t-online.de/home/076642735-0001/klaffe.htm