LINGUIST List 12.2051

Thu Aug 16 2001

Qs: Hierarchies of Person, Altaic

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  1. stetch, Hierarchies of Person
  2. Ivan A Derzhanski, Altaic etym

Message 1: Hierarchies of Person

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:13:07 +0900
From: stetch <>
Subject: Hierarchies of Person

Pronoun Paradigms and Speech Roles

Dear Linguists of the World

I have tried unsuccessfully through the library systems of both Japan and 
Australia to get a copy of Zwicky, A.M. 1977. 'Hierarchies of Person', 
Papers from the Thirteenth Regional Meeting Chicago Linguistic Society, 
pp. 712-33. Would somebody possibly be able to send me a copy of this 
article ? It would be most appreciated.

It seems to be widely accepted that the third person is anyone or
anything that is not represented as involved in the speech act and
'does not correlate with any positive participant role' (Lyons
1996:638). However, a footnote Varenne (1984:244-245) states (based on
personal communication with Paul Friedrich) that in some languages the
third person has been attested as referring to people actively
involved in the speech event. Can anybody send me 1) any names of such
languages in which this is possible, 2) examples of it, or 3) articles
describing such usage. Any interesting results will be summarized and
posted later.

Lyons, John. 1996 (1977). Semantics. Cambridge: New York: Cambridge 
University Press.
Varenne, Herv�. 1984. The interpretation of pronominal paradigms: 
Speech situation, pragmatic meaning, and cultural structure. Semiotica 
50-3/4. 221-248.

Thank you.

Stephen Nolan
International Christian University, Japan
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Message 2: Altaic etym

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:49:05 +0300
From: Ivan A Derzhanski <>
Subject: Altaic etym

Dear world,

I have two unrelated questions on Altaic etymology.

- --------
(1) N A Syromjatnikov's _Classical Japanese_ (1983) states that
Altaic /tS/ corresponds to Japanese /k/ (as well as /s/ and /t/),
and lists Mongolian _c^ikin_ `ear' :: Japanese _kik-u_ `hear'
as an illustration.

S A Starostin's online etymological database disagrees: Japanese
_kik-u_ is compared to Mongolian *_kul-ki_ `ear wax; middle ear'
(with velar-initial cognates elsewhere in Altaic), and Mongolian
_c^ikin_ to nothing at all in Japanese.

Which view (if either) do you share? Does the correspondence
of Altaic /tS/ to Japanese /k/ looks plausible?

- --------
(2) Various online sources say that the ethnonym Gilyak (for Nivkh)
goes back to Manchu _gilyami_ or _gileke_, with the meaning `those
who move along the river in great boats with paired oars'.

What is the stem of the Manchu word, and how precise is the gloss?
What is Manchu doing having such a short word for a form of travel
that its speakers didn't practise? or if they did, how could it be
used as a label for another ethnic group?

Thanks in advance,
Ivan A Derzhanski <>;
H: cplx Iztok bl 91, 1113 Sofia, Bulgaria <>
W: Dept for Math Lx, Inst for Maths & CompSci, Bulg Acad of Sciences
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