LINGUIST List 14.57

Thu Jan 9 2003

Qs: ASCII-IPA/SAMPA, Place-holder Words

Editor for this issue: Karen Milligan <karenlinguistlist.org>



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Directory

  • Andrew Marchenko, ASCII-IPA vs. SAMPA
  • Fabrice Emont, place-holder words

    Message 1: ASCII-IPA vs. SAMPA

     Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 09:30:47 -0500
    From: Andrew Marchenko <aemarchMAIL.RU>
    Subject: ASCII-IPA vs. SAMPA


    Hallo, everybody!

    I'd like to convert IPA symbols from paper or internet dictionaries to my Palm microcomputer personal dictionary (ASCII only).

    Internet search showed me the transcription schemes that suite me best:

    ASCII-IPA ([http://www.kirshenbaum.net/IPA/ascii-ipa.pdf] "Representing IPA phonetics in ASCII" by Evan Kirshenbaum)

    and

    SAMPA ([http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/sampa/home.htm]. See also "Computer Coded Phonetic Transcription" by J. C. Wells, Journal of the IPA, 17(2): 94-114, 1987).

    What is more preferable? Which one to choose? Any thoughts will be kindly appreciated.

    Andrew Marchenko, English learner, Palm user. aemarchmail.ru

    Message 2: place-holder words

     Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 10:23:04 +0000
    From: Fabrice Emont <f.emontlibertysurf.fr>
    Subject: place-holder words


    Dear linguists,

    I'm working on the semantics and pragmatics of place-holder words, mainly in French. These words are ''truc'', ''bidule'', ''machin''... (in English : ''thingummy'', ''doodah'', ''whatchamacallit''...). In connection with this research, I'd like to know if this kind of word is universal, how other languages create place-holder words (derived from pronoun, from a phrase, from a noun, use of specific forms...) and how these words are used. That's why I need your help : to find counterparts of these words in other languages (German, Tagalog, Arabic, Swedish, Swahili, Wolof, Japanese, Cherokee, Inuit, Lao, Dyirbal, or any other), with examples of use.

    Here are the main uses I've found in French (and their counterparts in English). How are they achieved in other languages?

    - Replacing a forgotten(or unknown) word/name/syllabe : ''Elle est venue avec M. Machintruc, je sais plus son nom...'' (She came with Mr Thingummy, I can't remember his name) ;''Mon grand-père est à Istan-machinchose (=Istanbul)'' (my grand-father is in Istan-thingummy)

    - Replacing a taboo word : ''L'exhibitionniste lui a montré son machin'' (the exhibitionist showed him his thingummy)

    - Talking about something the adressee can easily identify : ''Peux-tu me passer le machin bleu?'' (can you give me the blue thingo)

    - Talking about other examplars of a (supposed) category : ''Il pouvait parler sans fin de liberté, de justice, de machin, de truc.'' (He could endlessly talk about freedom, justice, and whatnot.''

    - Talking about an unknown thing : ''un machin m'a mordu'' (? a thingummy bit me / something bit me)

    - Talking about an atypical or despised thing : ''ce machin ne peut pas rester devant chez moi'' (? you can't let that doodah in front of my house)

    The place-holder words are generally used in informal speech, and are nouns. Sometimes, they can replace a verb or an adjective (rarely, in French) : I've read that the Tagalog word ''kwan'' (?) can do this, is it true?

    It seems, but I live in France and am not a native speaker of English, that the place-holder words like ''thingummy'' are less common in English than words like ''truc/machin'' are in French, maybe because ''thing/something'' is used more often than ''chose/quelque chose''? In German, I found few examples of ''Dingsda'' which is given as an equivalent of ''thingummy'' : do the Germans speak so precisely that they don't need this word, or do they use other strategies?

    Of course, I'm also looking for bibliography about these words. Here is what I have found until now : Channell J., Vague Language, Oxford University Press, 1994 ; Enfield N.J., ''Semantics of What-d'you-call-it : semantics and pragmatics of recognitional deixis'', in Journal of Pragmatics, 35, 2003 ; Kleiber G., ''Une leçon de chose : sur le statut semantico-referentiel du mot chose'', in Nominales : essai de semantique referentielle, Colin, 1994.

    I'll post a summary.

    Thank you

    Fabrice Emont