LINGUIST List 14.2441

Mon Sep 15 2003

Qs: Eng Polar Opposites; Direction Word Order

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  • michele bishop, presenting polar opposites?
  • Ron Andrews, Order of compass directions in different languages

    Message 1: presenting polar opposites?

     Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:53:50 -0400
    From: michele bishop <mishbishmac.com>
    Subject: presenting polar opposites?


    I am looking at the phenomenon of posing two alleged polar opposites in English that begin with comparing 'black and white', for example:

    "It doesn't matter if you are black or white, ______________ or ______________."

    Does anyone have any insight into the function of such a construction? Is the intended focus on the first half (looking at issues of race), or on the second half (which would be filled in according to one's goal I presume).

    "It doesn't matter if you are black or white, young or old". In this case the emphasis seems to be on how different each member of the set is from the other as compared to:

    "It doesn't matter if you are black or white, purple or green." This could be seen as as a request to look beyond race.

    In sign language, the members of each pair are set up to the right and left of the speaker indicating two separate groups though not necessarily opposites. Does this function the same way in both ASL and English?

    Thanks for joining me in my musings! Would appreciate any thoughts on this topic!

    Thank you,

    Michele Bishop Gallaudet University

    Message 2: Order of compass directions in different languages

     Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:32:35 +0900
    From: Ron Andrews <rjaosk2.3web.ne.jp>
    Subject: Order of compass directions in different languages


    Hello everyone,

    Does anyone know the etymology or history behind the traditional orders of compass directions stated in different languages?

    In English, German, possibly French, Italian, Spanish and others, the order is stated as "north, south, east, west". In Japanese, however, the order is "east, west, south, north" (tou, zai, nan, boku). In Chinese, I believe it's different again, as "east, south, west, north" (dong, nan, xi, bei). Other than guessing at the importance of east (rising sun) and north (direction of the head at death in Japan), I haven't come up with what seem like plausible reasons for these different orders. The orders used surely reflect other characteristics of the cultures involved, but what are they? One Japanese fellow I asked said he thought it was because in Japanese it's just easier to say it that way. I'm thinking it's got to be a lot deeper than that.

    I'm still scouring the Net and have looked through a few language books I have at home but haven't found much yet. Also, I've posted this question to a number of Japanese language-related newsgroups as well as to the SWET (Society of Writers, Editors and Translators, based in Japan) and Nihongo mailing lists. If anyone can suggest other newsgroups, mailing lists, etc., that would be very helpful.

    UPDATE: Since sending this query to the above resources, from the Net (http://www.unige.ch/fapse/SSE/teachers/dasen/FNRS4.html) I've found a case where at least one study suggests that "There is evidence to suggest that cultures differ in the use of directional words."

    Though this research no doubt covers much more depth than merely the order of directional words when spoken or written together, it does lend some credence to the possibility that the spoken/written order does indeed have cultural roots. For now, this is what I'm interested in learning about.

    So, why are there different ways of saying/writing the order of these directions in different languages?

    Many thanks for any help with this.

    Ron Andrews Nara, Japan