LINGUIST List 15.243

Fri Jan 23 2004

Disc: Re: Gil & Boroditsky: Indonesian Linguistics

Editor for this issue: Sarah Murray <>


  • Rose Thomas, Re: Gil & Boroditsky: Indonesian Linguistics

    Message 1: Re: Gil & Boroditsky: Indonesian Linguistics

    Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 06:43:02 -0500 (EST)
    From: Rose Thomas <>
    Subject: Re: Gil & Boroditsky: Indonesian Linguistics

    I was fascinated to see the recent posting about Riau Indonesian, largely because I have never before come across a language that wholly fails to distinguish between nouns and verbs. I would dearly love to see the data that this claim is based on. In particular, I'd like to know whether it is possible to say ''makan ayam'' in this language, and would this correspond to ''the thing (that is) eating is a chicken''.

    With regard to the experiment with the pictures of a man kicking a football, it seems that this could be interpreted a variety of ways, not just as indicating that English speakers focus on temporal relations while Indonesian speakers focus on spatial. For instance, it's possible that English speakers are focussing on the type of situation depicted, and choose the two pictures that show the same type of situation, while Indonesian speakers focus on the most salient participant in the event, the man. Would there be anything in their respective languages that would lend itself to this interpretation? Or could the phenomenon actually be cultural in origin?

    This leads me to the real problem I have with the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. It's not due to commitment to any particular theoretical position, I'd just like to know the precise nature of these supposedly ''profound'' differeneces in thought, precisely how they are linked to specific linguistic features, and just exactly what difference they make to anything. Even if the experiment with the pictures indicates some minor differences in thought, they hardly seem important. For example, Riau Indonesian sounds a bit like Chinese, which also lacks tense, and has very little morphology that could be used to distinguish nouns and verbs. But does this make a difference to anything? Is there anything, for instance, that Chinese speakers can understand that English speakers can't or vice versa? The most subtle philosophical abstractions have been getting expressed in both languages for many centuries, for example. So what exactly are these differences in thought, and do they make a difference to anything important? Or is there some obvious thing that I'm missing here?

    - Rose Thomas