LINGUIST List 4.221
Fri 26 Mar 1993
Sum: Dutch and Afrikaans
Editor for this issue: <>
John Cowan, Summary: Dutch and Afrikaans
Message 1: Summary: Dutch and Afrikaans
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 12:07:18 Summary: Dutch and Afrikaans
From: John Cowan <cowansnark.thyrsus.com>
Subject: Summary: Dutch and Afrikaans
In response to my query about Dutch and Afrikaans, I received mail from:
Alexis Manaster Ramer <Alexis_Manaster_RamerMTS.cc.Wayne.edu>
Audrey Immelman <AIMMELMANtiny.computing.csbsju.edu>
Catharina de Jonge <kannanvistudent.msu.edu>
Craig Thiersch <thierschkub.nl>
Daan Wissing <ATLDPWpuknet.puk.ac.za>
Dirk Elzinga <dirk.elzingam.cc.utah.edu>
Emile van der Zee <VANDERZEEBINAH.CC.BRANDEIS.EDU>
Erica Lynn Grevemeyer <grevmidway.uchicago.edu>
Jeroen Wiedenhof <JMWIEDENHOFrulcr1.LeidenUniv.nl>
Reinier Post <reinpostinfo.win.tue.nl>
Robert S. Kirsner <IDT1RSKMVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
Tucker Childs <099CHILDwitsvma.wits.ac.za>
Zev bar-Lev <zbarlevsciences.sdsu.edu>
The general answers to my questions were that mutual intelligibility is
high but not total: highest for written documents, somewhat lower for
passively understanding conversations, and lowest for participating in
conversations, as one would expect. The best guess about 19th-century
Afrikaans is that it would be closer to 19th-century Dutch; one correspondent
said that most of the drift has taken place in the last 50 years or so.
On Dutch television, Afrikaans is subtitled; but on Dutch radio, Afrikaans
is not translated, and interviews where the interviewer speaks Dutch and
the interviewee speaks Afrikaans are typical. Several correspondents
also mentioned private conversations of this mixed type; one person
outright characterized Afrikaans and Dutch as "two dialects of the same
language", and another said that "Afrikaans is about as difficult to
understand [for Standard Dutch speakers] as the typical Dutch dialect
[in the Netherlands]".
Subjectively, Dutch-speakers perceive Afrikaans as "childish" or "archaic".
For the converse reaction, see Kirsner's wonderful anecdote quoted below.
In answer to various correspondents' questions: I do not myself speak
either Dutch or Afrikaans; my interest is essentially abstract.
From: "Robert S. Kirsner" <IDT1RSKMVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
> I am an American who has learned both Afrikaans and Dutch as
> foreign languages and they are very different ball games, kind of like
> tennis and badminton. The trouble is that there is a lot of
> PSEUDO-mutual intelligibility, where people think they understand
> but actually don't because of false cognates, different idioms, etc.
> And different stylistic levels .
> I once heard the following conversation: Dutch woman to Afrikaans-speaking
> woman: Excuse me, but when I hear you speak Afrikaans it sounds so
> childish. Afrikaans woman's answer: I guess you'll have to excuse me,
> but when I hear you talk, you sound so dead.
John Cowan cowansnark.thyrsus.com ...!uunet!lock60!snark!cowan
e'osai ko sarji la lojban.